The Ref Stop

Swansea v Middlesbrough

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Well, surely all or most of you have seen the aftermath to this game with Warnock losing his head.
Whether he should have confronted him or not I am not asking, but what I am asking, as a passionate fan/manager/player would you feel aggrieved with the way the match went?

For me, I think Gavin Ward has had a stinker and looks like he is easily influenced to change decisions.

Challenge made, ball gone out behind the goal and Ward very quickly signals for a corner. But Ward changes his mind once the ball had gone out and signalled for a corner for a good couple of seconds. In that time the Swansea players rushed him and shouted at him and he changed his mind.
Replays for me show its inconclusive whether the defender played it or not. Real time it looks like he got the ball but obviously my angle is the camera. The challenge was not reckless or fitting of any other requirements to consider a foul so it purely is down to whether he got the ball or fouled the attacker. The fact he originally gave a corner suggests he has seen it, maybe also backed up with comms from assistant as he didn't look over at him. Then 2-3 seconds later he signals for a penalty following a few Swansea players rushing him.
At the end of the game he indicated to Warnock that it was him that made the decision. Based on what? The rushing of a few attacking players to convince him? Did he think it was and wasn't sure until a few players rushing at him also thinking the same meant he must have got it wrong?
He is a professional, he has been doing it a long time. If he thought it was a penalty, but was not 100%, for starters, if not 100% don't give it. You're basically awarding a goal on a guess. But give yourself a second or two thinking time. But no, he quickly signalled, with confidence, for a corner to then change his mind.
That to me shows he had no control of the situation and looks to be bought by a few players running and shouting at him.

Also, earlier in this same match, he disallowed a perfectly good Middlesbrough goal. Bolasie poked the ball to team mate who shot from edge of the box and scored. As he shot, clearly on target and going in from all camera angles, the referee blows for free kick. The Swansea player, as Bolasie pokes ball to team mate, KICKS Bolasie knocking him slightly off balance from his perfect slide (on ground, in control, not just had possession of ball already but played it again) to which the Swansea player fell over from.

Two major KMI and both in Swansea favour.

Can understand why Warnock was so pissed off.
 
The Ref Stop
I’m a Boro fan so I won’t go on too much of a rant but the Bolasie decision was beyond explanation for me. Considering the refs position he quite simply has to get that right, how on earth he saw a foul on the Swansea player is just baffling.

The penalty, I do think he got the decision right which is the main thing in the end but to give the corner, then change his mind and give the penalty after being surrounded by Swansea players is not a good look for him at all. Even if he got different information from his AR, he’s still immediately given the corner following the challenge so you have to be 100% sure to change your mind, especially when you’re stood right next to the challenge. And as you said, he told Warnock that HE gave the decision. He didn’t see a replay, he’s literally just decided that the ball wasn’t won based on nothing (or was influenced to change his mind :wall:).
 
But that's my point, was he or even the assistant whose a good 30-40 yards away (happened central of the area, thinking 18 yards from edge of box to goal post, plus another 4 to centre of area, and giving another 10 yards or so from edge of box to touchline, as well as diagonals as he would not have been in line either as last line of defence was not the challenge) really 100%? He clearly wasn't as he originally gave a corner. The assistant, much further away, couldn't be sure from his distance and position to overrule the referees decision.
Not entirely sure he got it right still.
I think Bidwell kicks the defender after kicking the ball out of play for what should have been a goal kick. Just because the player goes down, doesn't always mean it's a foul. And to guess too...
 
Ladbroke - Firstly Warnock should have got a red card - he did earlier in the season - it specifically says in LOTG that they can't approach and confront officials after the game - surprised you're (sort of) condoning that.

He also weakens his argument even further by saying that 'all of them' (the officials) are bad, and to round things off he says officials should be ex players - as we have discussed on numerous occasions, most don't know (or care that they don't) the laws anyway!

'Playing' is hardly a substitute for the number of games and standard of refereeing these guys have to undertake to get to SG level.

Having said all that, I get that he is frustrated, but to make those comments, just means that no one is going to take any notice.

Your criticisms (from a position of knowledge) might be fair enough but Mr Warnock's comments were certainly not.
 
Ladbroke - Firstly Warnock should have got a red card - he did earlier in the season - it specifically says in LOTG that they can't approach and confront officials after the game - surprised you're (sort of) condoning that.

I am not condoning it whatsoever.
I thought it was a given that it was completely wrong which is why I didn't dwell further on it but the decision making and why he was pissed off.
Sorry that it seemed to come across differently.
 
I am not condoning it whatsoever.
I thought it was a given that it was completely wrong which is why I didn't dwell further on it but the decision making and why he was pissed off.
Sorry that it seemed to come across differently.
Don't have to apologise mate! The ott criticism by the managers always gets me!

I should be apologising to you for implying that you DID condone it!
 
Most other managers and I'd listen. But with Warnock, it's just a droning noise
That said, Ward is not good enough. Although he does literally look half is age, so he must be doing something I'm not :old:
 
He's obviously had information from the active assistant, or possibly one of the other two officials, regardless of what Warnock is reporting. To suggest he changed the decision based on Swansea players moaning just doesn't wash with a referee of this level and experience. That said, if it was the active assistant he could have sold this by going to talk to him rather than just using comms, not credible if it was one of the other two though.

Warnock should be in big, big trouble for his behaviour on the pitch but also his interview comments. Yet again he has ranted about all referees rather than just a specific situation, but to bring Keith Cooper (former top level referee and Swansea manager Steve Cooper's father) into it and suggesting he has influence on decisions is beyond classless.
 
He's obviously had information from the active assistant, or possibly one of the other two officials, regardless of what Warnock is reporting. To suggest he changed the decision based on Swansea players moaning just doesn't wash with a referee of this level and experience. That said, if it was the active assistant he could have sold this by going to talk to him rather than just using comms, not credible if it was one of the other two though.

Warnock should be in big, big trouble for his behaviour on the pitch but also his interview comments. Yet again he has ranted about all referees rather than just a specific situation, but to bring Keith Cooper (former top level referee and Swansea manager Steve Cooper's father) into it and suggesting he has influence on decisions is beyond classless.
I don't mind managers speaking from the hip, but there's something deeply unpleasant about this Dinosaur
 
He's obviously had information from the active assistant, or possibly one of the other two officials, regardless of what Warnock is reporting. To suggest he changed the decision based on Swansea players moaning just doesn't wash with a referee of this level and experience. That said, if it was the active assistant he could have sold this by going to talk to him rather than just using comms, not credible if it was one of the other two though.

Warnock should be in big, big trouble for his behaviour on the pitch but also his interview comments. Yet again he has ranted about all referees rather than just a specific situation, but to bring Keith Cooper (former top level referee and Swansea manager Steve Cooper's father) into it and suggesting he has influence on decisions is beyond classless.


I feel like there’s something in the ref not giving a red card at the end. The referee literally had security around him on the FOP and as he walked off with Warnock and players absolutely berating him and he didn’t issue a single card, and then he agreed to speak to Warnock after the game as well despite the fact this isn’t allowed in the current climate. That to me is a referee who knows he has made a mistake and almost feel like he’s letting Warnock get on with it, essentially understanding his frustrations.
 
I feel like there’s something in the ref not giving a red card at the end. The referee literally had security around him on the FOP and as he walked off with Warnock and players absolutely berating him and he didn’t issue a single card, and then he agreed to speak to Warnock after the game as well despite the fact this isn’t allowed in the current climate. That to me is a referee who knows he has made a mistake and almost feel like he’s letting Warnock get on with it, essentially understanding his frustrations.

Warnock says that he spoke to the referee after, Warnock says that the referee told him that he had made the penalty decision without any help from assistants. He has made things up about what referees have told him in the past, what's to say he isn't doing the same here?

The man has zero credibility. He complained that Clive Oliver was too old to be refereeing then when the FA sent his son Michael a few games later he complained he was too young. He complains about everything, and nothing is ever his or his team's fault.
 
Warnock says that he spoke to the referee after, Warnock says that the referee told him that he had made the penalty decision without any help from assistants. He has made things up about what referees have told him in the past, what's to say he isn't doing the same here?

The man has zero credibility. He complained that Clive Oliver was too old to be refereeing then when the FA sent his son Michael a few games later he complained he was too young. He complains about everything, and nothing is ever his or his team's fault.
I’m not saying he’s not lying, he could well be. All I’m saying is I think the referee knows he made a mistake and the lack of cards at the end to me is an indicator of that. Almost like he’s thinking he’ll let Warnock crack on and vent, not rubbing salt into the wound. Warnocks actions and comments were 100% wrong, I’m just suggesting what the referee may have done based on what we’ve seen on TV
 
Yeah, it's not a one or the other situation. The decisions are hard to understand and Warnock is completely out of order.
 
He's obviously had information from the active assistant, or possibly one of the other two officials, regardless of what Warnock is reporting. To suggest he changed the decision based on Swansea players moaning just doesn't wash with a referee of this level and experience. That said, if it was the active assistant he could have sold this by going to talk to him rather than just using comms, not credible if it was one of the other two though.

Warnock should be in big, big trouble for his behaviour on the pitch but also his interview comments. Yet again he has ranted about all referees rather than just a specific situation, but to bring Keith Cooper (former top level referee and Swansea manager Steve Cooper's father) into it and suggesting he has influence on decisions is beyond classless.

As an American, I'll freely admit that I'm not as knowledgeable about some of the characters a bit lower on the English/Welsh football food chain. But Neil Warnock always has that "angry old man bellows at cloud" type of vibe about him. As others have said, it's kind of hard to take anything he says seriously when he's always so grumpy and bitter (regardless of whether the source of his frustration has any validity). The comments about Keith Cooper are beyond the pale and deserve a substantial penalty. To say that referees are giving Swansea calls because their manager's father used to be a referee is barely a rung below "he's a cheat".
 
Most other managers and I'd listen. But with Warnock, it's just a droning noise
That said, Ward is not good enough. Although he does literally look half is age, so he must be doing something I'm not :old:
Personally, I think Mr Ward should be promoted to the highest possible level, purely based on the fact that he managed to upset that gobsh*te Colin W*nk*r! (lovable old rogue that he is) 😂

Not sure what you’re basing your assessment of Gavin on, but I thought he put in an excellent performance the last time I saw him ref... Huddersfield v Stoke it was. Straight red, no hesitation, as well as a decisive penalty - both decisions 100% correct in my opinion. We all have ‘off days’ but I haven’t seen many from him to be fair. Sounds like a touch of jealousy regarding his ‘youthful looks‘ Big Cat 😂😂
 
Personally, I think Mr Ward should be promoted to the highest possible level, purely based on the fact that he managed to upset that gobsh*te Colin W*nk*r! (lovable old rogue that he is) 😂

Not sure what you’re basing your assessment of Gavin on, but I thought he put in an excellent performance the last time I saw him ref... Huddersfield v Stoke it was. Straight red, no hesitation, as well as a decisive penalty - both decisions 100% correct in my opinion. We all have ‘off days’ but I haven’t seen many from him to be fair. Sounds like a touch of jealousy regarding his ‘youthful looks‘ Big Cat 😂😂
Personally, I've seen more bad than good from his games which is actually from a small sample still mind.
Maybe not in KMI but definitely in consistency.
 
I'm going by of recent games watched I shudder when I see he is attached to them. Not in the same way Keith Stroud is appointed but I worry when I see his name because I've seen more poor games than remember the good ones.
 
I'm going by of recent games watched I shudder when I see he is attached to them. Not in the same way Keith Stroud is appointed but I worry when I see his name because I've seen more poor games than remember the good ones.
I’m even more confused now 🤔 why would you shudder at any individual referee appointments unless it affects you (or your club) directly? I suppose it’s all subjective opinion anyway, but don’t let it ruin your day pal, there’s a lot more to shudder about these days, that’s for sure... Keith Stroud for starters! 😂😂 (only joking Keith 😘😉)
 
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