A&H

The one that got away.

DazN

DazN

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Sorry for the long post. It took some time to process...

I've heard it said many times on here not to let the game get away from you as a referee.... Well I hate to say it, but I had one of those yesterday.

U13s A-League clash, both teams wanting to finish in 4th place so for the they both had something riding on it.

Game went well for the first half (this was the game that I paused for the two minute silence)

It was fairly physical from the start, but the only real disciplinary incident of note was when the Home defender got back to nick the ball away just as the Away forward took a shot... Forward kicked the defender's ankle who went down hurt and I gave a FK to the defending team. Away forward not happy saying it wasn't a foul and I explained to him that although it was accidental, it was still a foul. As he walked away he muttered '********' under his breath. I called him back and gave him a warning that he was walking a very fine line (should I have sin-binned him for this? - probably)

By the second half the Home team were 2-0 up and some silly tackles started going in from the losing team. Thankfully none of them made contact, but in hindsight, me letting them go un-punished was the start of the slippery slope.

Home team then started doing similar, and I could feel the game getting away from me a little, but I (wrongly) thought I could keep it under control.

15 mins to go and with the score still at 2-0 one of the Home defenders got hurt in a challenge and as my attention was focussed on him (down on the ground in pain) I apparently missed a shove in the back by the Home team as the ball went out for a throw. Away coach (out of his technical area - again something I failed to deal with) starts having a go that I'd missed the shove. I pointed to the downed player and foolishly asked 'What about him?' to which he replied 'So? What about the shove?' By now the injured player was receiving treatment so I went over the coach to talk to him and explain that I didn't see the shove to which he said 'They've been doing it all game, you haven't given any of them!' I replied and explained that putting hands on an opponent isn't a foul unless there is a clear push and that both teams had been doing it all game. I asked him what he expected when both teams were doing it and he replied that he expected that I should be giving the fouls as I was 'the only one being paid to do their job'. The injured defender can't continue and goes off and Home team are down to 10. We restart with a throw in.

From then on it was a fast descent into chaos. Here is where I truly felt like I was on a runaway train. Every player on the Away team was now screaming 'In the back Ref!', 'That's a foul Ref!', 'REFEREE!' at every single challenge, none of which were anything other than normal footballing challenges, but I think they were following their coach's example. One of the Away team players who had been very vocal all match about how I wasn't giving any fouls then said 'He told me to shut the **** up!' after words were exchanged between him and another player (I didn't hear it) but I stupidly said 'Maybe you should listen to his advice' (not my proudest moment)

Away team then score to make it 2-1 and we head into the last 5 minutes. It's all the Away team as they desperately try for an equalizer against 10 men and there are some robust but fair challenges from the Home team, despite the screaming appeals. Then the Away team get a FK on the edge of the area. Player steps up and as he hits it, a Home defender shouts 'Aaagh' in (in my eyes) a deliberate attempt to put him him off. I caution the defender and award an IDFK. Away coach is claiming they can retake the first FK and I explain that it as now an IDFK for the UB. (although I think I should have awarded it from where the defender made the shout, not the spot of the first FK?) The Home team start encroaching so I mark out the distance and make them reset with a warning not to do it. At this point I had every player shouting and gesticulating what they could and couldn't do and I just blew my whistle and said loudly 'Stop with all the moaning or this game is going to get abandoned' The IDFK is eventually taken, but charged down and cleared.

I eventually played something like 7 minutes of added time before I blew the final whistle.

To be fair, all the coaches shook my hand as did some of the players, but that is a game I will be filing in the 'ones to forget' book.

:facepalm:
 
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DazN said:
Away team then score to make it 2-1 and we head into the last 5 minutes. It's all the Away team as they desperately try for an equalizer against 10 men and there are some robust but fair challenges from the Home team, despite the screaming appeals. Then the Away team get a FK on the edge of the area. Player steps up and as he hits it, a Home defender shouts 'Aaagh' in (in my eyes) a deliberate attempt to put him him off. I caution the defender and award an IDFK. Away coach is claiming they can retake the first FK and I explain that it as now an IDFK for the UB. (although I think I should have awarded it from where the defender made the shout, not the spot of the first FK?) The Home team start encroaching so I mark out the distance and make them reset with a warning not to do it. At this point I had every player shouting and gesticulating what they could and couldn't do and I just blew my whistle and said loudly 'Stop with all the moaning or this game is going to get abandoned' The IDFK is eventually taken, but charged down and cleared.
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Lots to think over, but on this one point:
  • when the shout happened, did you deem the ball in play? If so, then its a YC and the IDFK would be from the position of the player; if not, then it is a YC and the original FK is re-taken.
Normally, I would advise that the ball was not in play and re-take the FK as the IDFK unless significantly closer to the gal is a "worse decision",
 
lincs22 said:
Lots to think over, but on this one point:
  • when the shout happened, did you deem the ball in play? If so, then its a YC and the IDFK would be from the position of the player; if not, then it is a YC and the original FK is re-taken.
Normally, I would advise that the ball was not in play and re-take the FK as the IDFK unless significantly closer to the gal is a "worse decision",
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It was as the ball was struck, so very hard to call. All I had in my mind was that it was then a YC and an IDFK, I didn't realise I could caution and then let them retake the original FK. I will remember that next time!
 
DazN said:
It was as the ball was struck, so very hard to call. All I had in my mind was that it was then a YC and an IDFK, I didn't realise I could caution and then let them retake the original FK. I will remember that next time!
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It’s all a question of whether the ball was in play. And if the ball had already been kicked, wouldn’t have been much point in the yell, right? For this, just remember the fundamental concept that restarts don’t change until they are taken. So an offense before a restart never changes it.

all in all, everyone has at least one game like this somewhere along the way. The take away is to work on reading the game and tightening up. When you know a game is going to be tense, start tight—it’s always easier to loosen when players show they want to play than it is to tighten. And in a tense game, tightening up to start the second half helps, too, as teams vpcan come out over-amped.
 
As I replay it in my mind, the player struck the ball and then the shout came. It was stupid and not well timed by the defender and I don't think the shout put the player off as it was already on its way (going high over the bar) hence I immediately thought 'attempts to distract an opponent' rather than 'distracts an opponent'
 
DazN said:
As I replay it in my mind, the player struck the ball and then the shout came. It was stupid and not well timed by the defender and I don't think the shout put the player off as it was already on its way (going high over the bar) hence I immediately thought 'attempts to distract an opponent' rather than 'distracts an opponent'
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Good that you have thought the game through and shared here - best advice is to tighten control in the first 10 minutes of each half and when the match temperature rises.
Not sure why you have differentiated between "attempts to distract" and "distracts" (?)
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Not sure why you have differentiated between "attempts to distract" and "distracts" (?)
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For some reason I thought that was the wording and that the 'attempt to distract' was the offence as opposed to actual distraction being required.

At the time, my first instinct was that the shout came after the kick, ie that he didn't actually distract him as the ball was already in flight so would this negate the offence if the distraction had no effect?
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Good that you have thought the game through and shared here - best advice is to tighten control in the first 10 minutes of each half and when the match temperature rises.
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I think this was my problem. There were quite marginal challenges and pushes early on, but because both teams were doing it, I ended up letting them go, only giving the obvious ones whereas I should have seen this and started calling everything, no matter how marginal.
 
DazN said:
For some reason I thought that was the wording and that the 'attempt to distract' was the offence as opposed to actual distraction being required.

At the time, my first instinct was that the shout came after the kick, ie that he didn't actually distract him as the ball was already in flight so would this negate the offence if the distraction had no effect?
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Law 12 includes: verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart
 
DazN said:
At the time, my first instinct was that the shout came after the kick, ie that he didn't actually distract him as the ball was already in flight so would this negate the offence if the distraction had no effect?
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it’s a species of USB. As a general rule, certainly there is no need to punish behavior that has no effect on the opponent. But yelling could, in my opinion, in an extreme situation be obnoxious enough to warrant a card merely for the act.

As I picture what you have here, if you don’t see an impact on an opponent, I think a word when the ball goes out is how ai would handle it—where opponents can hear and know you’re not missing it. “I heard you. And you should know that if a yell like that has impacts the kicker, you’ll be cautioned and he’ll get a second bite at the apple. Don’t do it.”
 
socal lurker said:
it’s a species of USB. As a general rule, certainly there is no need to punish behavior that has no effect on the opponent. But yelling could, in my opinion, in an extreme situation be obnoxious enough to warrant a card merely for the act.

As I picture what you have here, if you don’t see an impact on an opponent, I think a word when the ball goes out is how ai would handle it—where opponents can hear and know you’re not missing it. “I heard you. And you should know that if a yell like that has impacts the kicker, you’ll be cautioned and he’ll get a second bite at the apple. Don’t do it.”
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Due to the fact it was late in an already feisty game and the other team were chasing an equalizer, I am sure the player knew what he was doing, he just didn't time it well enough to have the effect he wanted. Obviously I thought the attempt was enough to caution which I now know is not the necessarily the case, despite the cries from the sidelines.
 
Viridis1886 said:
Me too, but mainly because at U13 you'd already have played 25 mins of added time! 😁
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Funnily enough a couple of years ago I had an U13 County Cup game in which one team clearly hadn’t warmed up enough and had an injury every few minutes. In the same game one keeper got a lengthy injury after a challenge, and an SFP challenge put a defender on the floor for about ten minutes. I think we probably ended up playing about 25 minutes added time.
 
OldNavyRef said:
6 minutes of overtime in a game like that.

I'd have my whistle in my mouth at 89:59.
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It was closer to 7, there had been a couple of lengthy injuries that took at least 3/4 minutes and then the whole situation around the shout / caution / IDFK added onto that.
 
DazN said:
It was as the ball was struck, so very hard to call.
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Assuming that your competition does not make use of VAR, then why not just take the easy decision of retaking the DFK and saying you stopped it before the ball was in play? Or saying the incident began before the ball was in play? Or just not say anything?

In regards to your analysis, I think you've had a good reflection. Being lenient, leaving your cards in your pocket, and not calling the small fouls which you don't need to call but definitely could call is not my advised approach. I like the warning in the first instance of dissent, but then you've had a whole lot more dissent, from the coach and the players, which you didn't deal with. Once you've publicly warned someone for dissent, deal with the dissent appropriately the next time, with a caution.

Furthermore, when the game is chippy or when the temperature is getting hot, call the small "maybe" fouls. Hands on the back? Give the foul. A player goes shoulder to shoulder just a little bit harder than necessary? Foul. A player gets his arms slightly around his opponent on a corner kick? Stop the restart, address it, and give the foul right away when the ball goes back into play. When you feel a game getting out of hand, smother it.
 
lincs22 said:
Lots to think over, but on this one point:
  • when the shout happened, did you deem the ball in play? If so, then its a YC and the IDFK would be from the position of the player; if not, then it is a YC and the original FK is re-taken.
Normally, I would advise that the ball was not in play and re-take the FK as the IDFK unless significantly closer to the gal is a "worse decision",
Click to expand...
I agree. It's a retake of original free kick. If the ball is in play then it's hard to say the kicker was distracted by the shout..
 
JamesL said:
I agree. It's a retake of original free kick. If the ball is in play then it's hard to say the kicker was distracted by the shout..
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It was definitely a late shout and I honestly believe it had no impact on the FK. The mistake I made was that I believed that ‘attempts to distract’ was an offence and that was what I was giving.

Were I to be in the exact same situation tomorrow I would be speaking to the player and advising him not to do it again.
 
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