Failing abandonment expect to receive a very frosty report ending any chance of promotion as evidently the referee will have failed to conduct a proper pitch inspection this negligent to his responsibilities as the referee.
What happens if....
- Thread starter Reuben Watt
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santa sangria
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Where I am the adult matches I ref are predominantly on artificial grass with goals that are on wheels. The pitches are often converted from 1/2 to full the same evening so there is moving of goals before a lot of games. They are not secured to the ground. The wheels come off, or flip up when you place the goals. This means that the posts do sometimes move, or need to be adjusted prior to the start - sometimes during the game - as sometimes a player will push a post before a corner - though this requires very heavy force to even move it an inch.
I say this because abandonment because a goal is not "nailed down" is not an option in my leagues.
I am interested in this case still. It is practically impossible to move one of our 11-a-side goals far enough and fast enough during a shot. But still this is an interesting potential scenario. I hear the YC IFK shout.. what about spirit of the game here for something not covered under the laws as written?
I say this because abandonment because a goal is not "nailed down" is not an option in my leagues.
I am interested in this case still. It is practically impossible to move one of our 11-a-side goals far enough and fast enough during a shot. But still this is an interesting potential scenario. I hear the YC IFK shout.. what about spirit of the game here for something not covered under the laws as written?
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
The LOTG require them to be secured - not heavy. Pretty sure a kid got killed or serious injured by the sort of goals you're describing a few years back.
spirit of the game doesn't allow you to completely break or make up laws. It's there to encourage referees to use their understanding of the game to see how far laws can bend at times. Sometimes the laws are still ridiculous and unfair.
Hey, here's an idea. Do the right thing - caution and IFK. Pull him aside to give him the caution. While you're doing that tell him that the new laws allow a penalty goal and that's what you're awarding. When he puts his hands on his face in despair book him again for dissent and send him. Then suddenly remember the laws and stick to the IFK.
Is that the spirit of the game??
spirit of the game doesn't allow you to completely break or make up laws. It's there to encourage referees to use their understanding of the game to see how far laws can bend at times. Sometimes the laws are still ridiculous and unfair.
Hey, here's an idea. Do the right thing - caution and IFK. Pull him aside to give him the caution. While you're doing that tell him that the new laws allow a penalty goal and that's what you're awarding. When he puts his hands on his face in despair book him again for dissent and send him. Then suddenly remember the laws and stick to the IFK.
Is that the spirit of the game??
The plastic goals in the OP can be secured to the ground so that they don't topple forwards, but they certainly have very little vertical rigidity. You could quite easily push the top of an upright sideways to move the top of the bar. So the scenario could happen having checked that the goals were secure. Importantly, it would be more likely to happen up to U18 at a tournament, so cards definitely come in to play. Whilst it does feel like a DOGSO, I don't think we can argue that within the LotG. So, for me, USB and just a yellow card (or, if at a tournament, a blue card and a trip to the sin bin). No IDFKs, so a penalty. Let's hope the penalty taker is good at taking penalties.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
There are going to be occasions when it isnt possible to secure a goal to the ground, a 4g pitch for example.
The ones ive reffed on have been at schools and have the goals on wheels that can be moved around for various reasons.
They cant be secured asside from locking, raising or removing the wheels, so should i be calling these matches off as the goals arent secured to the ground?
The ones ive reffed on have been at schools and have the goals on wheels that can be moved around for various reasons.
They cant be secured asside from locking, raising or removing the wheels, so should i be calling these matches off as the goals arent secured to the ground?
Is this any different to a goalkeeper holding the crossbar down during the game? Even at professional level it's possible for them to move the crossbar by grabbing hold of it or hanging from it, and I've never seen a red card given for DOGSO or any suggestion that this should be the decision.
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Something incredibly close to this happened in a match in Sweden in 2009.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...alkeeper-Kim-Christensen-moves-goalposts.html
According to this report, the referee wasn't sure what exactly had happened but talks about 'warning' (not sure if he means verbally warning or cautioning) the player if he had seen him doing it. Interestingly enough, a member of the Swedish FA says the 'correct' decision would have been a penalty but I'm not sure where he's getting that from, or that he's qualified to say that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...alkeeper-Kim-Christensen-moves-goalposts.html
According to this report, the referee wasn't sure what exactly had happened but talks about 'warning' (not sure if he means verbally warning or cautioning) the player if he had seen him doing it. Interestingly enough, a member of the Swedish FA says the 'correct' decision would have been a penalty but I'm not sure where he's getting that from, or that he's qualified to say that.
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santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Great find.
This again is artificial grass so the goals are not nailed down. I hope this is understood. In various top leagues in different countries the goals are not secured. They do have bottom bracing bars etc.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Why is YC and IFK correct here? Which law are you referencing here?The LOTG require them to be secured - not heavy. Pretty sure a kid got killed or serious injured by the sort of goals you're describing a few years back.
spirit of the game doesn't allow you to completely break or make up laws. It's there to encourage referees to use their understanding of the game to see how far laws can bend at times. Sometimes the laws are still ridiculous and unfair.
Hey, here's an idea. Do the right thing - caution and IFK. Pull him aside to give him the caution. While you're doing that tell him that the new laws allow a penalty goal and that's what you're awarding. When he puts his hands on his face in despair book him again for dissent and send him. Then suddenly remember the laws and stick to the IFK.
Is that the spirit of the game??
Generic USB to justify the card and IFK because you stopped play to issue the card I would guess?
Portable goals in the UK MUST be held down. Covered by point 1 of the linked document, which isn't just from the FA but also the Departure for Culture, Media and Sport, Health & Safetry Executive, and the British Standards Institute. Any referee not enforcing this, and should someone be injured, could easily find themselves liable to serious problems.
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/...-association/2015-16/041_goalpost-safety.ashx
The only exception is where the have a weighted back bar, so that is where the bar at the back of the goal is heavily weighted to make it impossible for the goal to topple. These usually have some kind of indication on them to state they are weighted.
Where not weighted they should be pinned to the floor. On astroturf I've seen this done by fastening it to a pillar on the surrounding fence with a strong chain and padlock, or the back bar weighted down with heavy sandbags..
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/...-association/2015-16/041_goalpost-safety.ashx
The only exception is where the have a weighted back bar, so that is where the bar at the back of the goal is heavily weighted to make it impossible for the goal to topple. These usually have some kind of indication on them to state they are weighted.
Where not weighted they should be pinned to the floor. On astroturf I've seen this done by fastening it to a pillar on the surrounding fence with a strong chain and padlock, or the back bar weighted down with heavy sandbags..
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
Well i sent an email to IFAB asking about this scenario, this is the response i received:
Seems that a red card for dogso would be within the spirit of the game, but it would have to be an indirect free kick.
And of course all goalposts must be secured etc.
Seems that a red card for dogso would be within the spirit of the game, but it would have to be an indirect free kick.
And of course all goalposts must be secured etc.
What an interesting reply. well done emailing them!
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I think we continental types have the weighted back bar. (It is actually amazing here how many goals with nets are in the parks, in addition to the actual footy pitches.)
I just ran 10k for a game on artificial grass. Kick off delayed 5 mins while the groundsman got his forklift tractor and removed the 4 half pitch goals, and nudged the "big" goals back into place (for my assistants to check naturally).