What would you do??

[Kes]

I'm less tolerant in youth matches in other areas too - dissent, aggression, deliberately unposrting acts.

Nothing wrong with that.

I must confess, my tolerance level (rightly or wrongly) does go down somewhat when it comes to youngsters. I don't do many "youth" games it has to be said, but if (hasn't happened yet) I was to encounter OFFINABUS or dissent from an U16 player, I think I'd have more difficulty not seeing red or yellow respectively.

 

[Padfoot]

Im in the "never offended" camp, I hear all sorts in every single game and if I get out the big red one they'd be no players left.

However, I am FAR less tolerant in youth matches, and have sent off kids for saying the same thing that on a Sat open age game wouldn't even raise an eyelid. Now, where's my popcorn?....

So...hypocritical as well as negligent?

 

[DB]

Let me just point something out to the non offended camp... Just bare in mind that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you, the players etc aren't offended. There could be someone at the game that is offended by the words/actions at a football match.

Blue vs red, red player gets tackled but thinks it should be a foul near touchline. As he stands up, he shouts to the player that just put the challenge in "You're a retard mate, you need your head checked". Little did he know, the chairman of the blue player is stood watching on the sideline with his 23 year old autistic daughter (who has been bullied and called all sorts throughout her life). I wasn't offended, the blue player wasn't offended BUT made it clear to the player that he shouldn't say stuff like that. By this time I have reached the players and I look to the sidelines to see the chairmans daughter quite upset, I issue a straight red.

This was in a friendly prior to me completing the NRC... I'd still take the same stance now.

*prepares for criticism*

 

[Kes]

Let me just point something out to the non offended camp... Just bare in mind that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you, the players etc aren't offended. There could be someone at the game that is offended by the words/actions at a football match.

Blue vs red, red player gets tackled but thinks it should be a foul near touchline. As he stands up, he shouts to the player that just put the challenge in "You're a retard mate, you need your head checked". Little did he know, the chairman of the blue player is stood watching on the sideline with his 23 year old autistic daughter (who has been bullied and called all sorts throughout her life). I wasn't offended, the blue player wasn't offended BUT made it clear to the player that he shouldn't say stuff like that. By this time I have reached the players and I look to the sidelines to see the chairmans daughter quite upset, I issue a straight red.

This was in a friendly prior to me completing the NRC... I'd still take the same stance now.

*prepares for criticism*

Can't agree with that Dave.
It's not for you to be offended on behalf of somebody else and change the match with a red card on that presumption.

If Mr Chairman and his autistic daughter are upset by something they hear like that during the course of a match, then they are quite within their rights to put in a written complaint to the club, league or CFA.
In the scenario you describe, a stern word (with an explanation as to why) would have served it's purpose.

 

[DB]

I was aware of the laws before my course and his use of words was found offensive and insulting by a few people. It doesn't state in the good book that it has to be the players etc that find the words insulting. After I realised what was said and in the company, I was offended for them. The guy didn't mean it and said he didn't realise who was on the sidelines but apologised to them both afterwards.

Looking back, maybe a bit harsh but I am sensitive to these sort of things, my brother has special needs and he was bullied a bit at school, although to look and talk to him you wouldn't think he's any different so I kinda sympathised with the people on the sidelines. The point of the story above though was just to make a point that although we may not be offended or a player may not be offended, there may be someone close by that would be.

Despite having to play with ten men for about 8-10 minutes, red team still won 5-1/2 (can't remember exactly).

 

[RegalRef]

I was aware of the laws before my course and his use of words was found offensive and insulting by a few people. It doesn't state in the good book that it has to be the players etc that find the words insulting. After I realised what was said and in the company, I was offended for them. The guy didn't mean it and said he didn't realise who was on the sidelines but apologised to them both afterwards.

Looking back, maybe a bit harsh but I am sensitive to these sort of things, my brother has special needs and he was bullied a bit at school, although to look and talk to him you wouldn't think he's any different so I kinda sympathised with the people on the sidelines. The point of the story above though was just to make a point that although we may not be offended or a player may not be offended, there may be someone close by that would be.

Despite having to play with ten men for about 8-10 minutes, red team still won 5-1/2 (can't remember exactly).

I understand your point, but if you took a stance like that at everything that could possibly offend anybody the game would turn into a farce and be abandoned on 20 minutes when it was 6v6?

You see the ridiculous things the PC brigade claim to be offended by in life on a daily basis, people can claim to be offended by literally anything for any reason?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Let me just point something out to the non offended camp... Just bare in mind that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you, the players etc aren't offended. There could be someone at the game that is offended by the words/actions at a football match.

Blue vs red, red player gets tackled but thinks it should be a foul near touchline. As he stands up, he shouts to the player that just put the challenge in "You're a retard mate, you need your head checked". Little did he know, the chairman of the blue player is stood watching on the sideline with his 23 year old autistic daughter (who has been bullied and called all sorts throughout her life). I wasn't offended, the blue player wasn't offended BUT made it clear to the player that he shouldn't say stuff like that. By this time I have reached the players and I look to the sidelines to see the chairmans daughter quite upset, I issue a straight red.

This was in a friendly prior to me completing the NRC... I'd still take the same stance now.

*prepares for criticism*

Not from me. I still remember my red headed father in law (who's from Durham but lives in Bedford) looking horrified when a left back called the opposing left back a "ginger c*nt" from 35 yards. I hate the word c*nt anyway but it made the dismissal that much easier.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I understand your point, but if you took a stance like that at everything that could possibly offend anybody the game would turn into a farce and be abandoned on 20 minutes when it was 6v6?

You see the ridiculous things the PC brigade claim to be offended by in life on a daily basis, people can claim to be offended by literally anything for any reason?

Please tell me where in the LotG it defines who has to be offended or insulted or abused?

 

[RegalRef]

Please tell me where in the LotG it defines who has to be offended or insulted or abused?

Equally, please show me how you are supposed to know if somebody else is offended, insulted or abused?

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

It's a tricky one. I've heard of a referee sending somebody off for calling a red-header AR a 'ranga' (as in, orangutan...). I wouldn't have thought to find that offensive myself.....but maybe that's my own ignorance.

Calling somebody mentally disabled as an insult......it's commonly done, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable. I'm sure not so many years ago a homophobic slur on the field was unlikely to result in a red card, now it is.

Is it reasonable, however, for a player to be aware of a particular individual on the sideline who may take offence when there wouldn't normally be a problem? ie is it fair to send the player off that game purely because of one person watching, when you wouldn't have any other match? Just raising the question.

I can't think of any other insult I could draw an analogy to, myself.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Equally, please show me how you are supposed to know if somebody else is offended, insulted or abused?

Having completed two Equality & Diversity qualifications (while I was out of work), I am now more aware of off the cuff comments which can be regarded as offensive, insulting or abusive. I'd recommend the FA one to every referee.

 

[Russell Jones]

I can't think of any other insult I could draw an analogy to, myself.

For me, a good analogy would be blaspheming. Historically, phrases like 'For Christ's Sake' or 'Jeez' might well have been seen as offensive by many. Nowadays far far fewer would have a problem with them. So, even though I KNOW that some might find those phrases offensive, because I'm not offended, and I don't believe they cause widespread offense, I'm not sending a player off for using them. And that's where I think the hardline argument on this issue falls over. Because I'd hazard a guess that no one on this forum would take action if they heard those phrases .. even though we all know in our heart of hearts that there is the possibility that someone else has been offended by them.

 

[RegalRef]

Having completed two Equality & Diversity qualifications (while I was out of work), I am now more aware of off the cuff comments which can be regarded as offensive, insulting or abusive. I'd recommend the FA one to every referee.

Fair comment.

Having never had to do any of these sort of courses at any point the dept of this sort of thing is something I know very, very little about.

Food for thought.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

I would love to watch one of your games @Padfoot

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Fair comment.

Having never had to do any of these sort of courses at any point the dept of this sort of thing is something I know very, very little about.

Food for thought.

I did them to add something on to my cv, not because I had to. The secret to being better is to keep developing even when you're not obliged to.

Intrinsic reward not extrinsic

 

[Yampy]

Let me just point something out to the non offended camp... Just bare in mind that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you, the players etc aren't offended. There could be someone at the game that is offended by the words/actions at a football match.

Blue vs red, red player gets tackled but thinks it should be a foul near touchline. As he stands up, he shouts to the player that just put the challenge in "You're a retard mate, you need your head checked". Little did he know, the chairman of the blue player is stood watching on the sideline with his 23 year old autistic daughter (who has been bullied and called all sorts throughout her life). I wasn't offended, the blue player wasn't offended BUT made it clear to the player that he shouldn't say stuff like that. By this time I have reached the players and I look to the sidelines to see the chairmans daughter quite upset, I issue a straight red.

This was in a friendly prior to me completing the NRC... I'd still take the same stance now.

*prepares for criticism*

Exactly my sentiments from my earlier post (#14) in this thread. It's not about the ref, it's about all participants in the game and this includes spectators.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Exactly my sentiments from my earlier post (#14) in this thread. It's not about the ref, it's about all participants in the game and this includes spectators.

I cant say I agree, based on this you would have to assess the spectators before and during the game to see who may take offence at something. No matter what certain people may say OFFINABUS will always come down to tolerance levels.

 

[Yampy]

I cant say I agree, based on this you would have to assess the spectators before and during the game to see who may take offence at something. No matter what certain people may say OFFINABUS will always come down to tolerance levels.

Of course it's down to tolerance levels and assessing the spectators isn't easy by any means. The least you can do is a bit of homework before the game and try and understand the teams that are playing. You'd do something similar with your NARs.
Consider this comment from a player to an opposition participant "Get off me, you deaf idiot?" Red, yellow, or no action?

 

[Cheshire Ref]

I do, do my homework on each and every team I referee, recent results league positions, last time they played each other etc. But how on earth can you do your homework on each player?

I presume you are saying the player is in fact deaf? I would have to be in that particular situation and judge it at the time.

 

[DB]

I cant say I agree, based on this you would have to assess the spectators before and during the game to see who may take offence at something. No matter what certain people may say OFFINABUS will always come down to tolerance levels.

I agree. Whilst you can't always be mindful of who is in the crowd, it's important that you are mindful of who COULD be in the crowd. Also, the blue player that the red player shouted at could have had a son/daughter/relative etc with learning difficulties. You never know. Regardless, I won't tolerate offensive language/behaviour. Had I not seen the upset young girl on the sidelines, I'd have cautioned the player. It got to me how upset she become.