Buffon leaves his mark
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Oh dont get me wrong, I wanted Buffon off ! My aimed angle was, act of violence or offensive or, all of it rolled into one?
It was definitely offensive and abusive
it's the 2 pushes/shoves in the back and then again in the chest, it is the getting so closely in your face and in such an aggressive and intimidating style, add to it definitely whatever was being said which reading their body language was most definitely abusive!
2nd String Ref
Member
Definitely a pen and you could say it was a genuine attempt to play the ball (albeit very clumsy), so not a red.
Buffon's red also deserved after he grabbed the ref and got in his face. I thought i lip-read a "no way' but couldn't get much else.
Quite a good game from Oliver in dealing with the various shenanigans.
Buffon's red also deserved after he grabbed the ref and got in his face. I thought i lip-read a "no way' but couldn't get much else.
Quite a good game from Oliver in dealing with the various shenanigans.
NorthLondonRef
Active Member
Where are you seeing the red though? Yes, there was some contact to the back but you will see tons of examples of attempts to win the ball where a player makes contact with the opponent such as a touch/hand on the back followed by a successful header from the player behind which is never enough to give a freekick. If you see the freeze frame below, literally 0.00001 second after the touch on the back, he has his foot about 5mm away from making contact with the ball. I think there's a strong argument that's an "attempt" for the ball. It may seem a moot point because he's off anyway with the second yellow but I feel it makes sense to have a consistent example of what's an attempt and what isn't. I argued on the GK thread that I thought it was a deliberate trip but the majority thought otherwise. On this challenge and based on the GK example at Sutton United, I'd think the majority would say this was an "attempt". Playing devil's advocate a little bit but I think it's an important point.
I'm glad I was vindicated thanks to Mr Oliver, I gave a similar penalty this Saturday. Attacker just outside the goal area trying to control a cross when the defender coming from behind decided to shove/kick around him to get the ball. Had my doubts after the game but now no!Shouldn't that kind of thing be warranting a much more lengthy ban than the standard 3 match ban?
As for the penalty, looked soft, but I'd probably give it.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I think MO got it spot on. The tackle was careless but there was no obvious goalscoring opportunity. The ball bounced up into the player's chest, no tap in or header, and the attacker did not have control of the ball. The combination if push in the back and knee hook to the chest, however light, is enough for the pen.
Red for Buff nailed on. And yes, the AAR (Atkinson?) should have seen Buffon marking the pitch and ordered a YC at the start of the second half.
That said, I watched in a room full of refs, 50/50 on the pen.. It does look harsh in "real time"!
Red for Buff nailed on. And yes, the AAR (Atkinson?) should have seen Buffon marking the pitch and ordered a YC at the start of the second half.
That said, I watched in a room full of refs, 50/50 on the pen.. It does look harsh in "real time"!
My thinking exactly my old friend..... great minds think alike eh
! Btw we will be in Estonia come August and there might be some footy tournament to sink our teeth into, interested?
NorthLondonRef
Active Member
No obvious goalscoring opportunity? I don't have a fight in this argument because I've got me some Chicken to cook but I think it depends where you draw the threshold on what's an obvious goal scoring opportunity and what isn't. I do have a feeling though some will argue to the end of the earth with all their vigour that it's 100% an obvious goal scoring opportunity! Now I've finished stirring the pot....I've got some chicken to marinade
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
DGSO for me! Red card!
No obvious goalscoring opportunity? I don't have a fight in this argument because I've got me some Chicken to cook but I think it depends where you draw the threshold on what's an obvious goal scoring opportunity and what isn't. I do have a feeling though some will argue to the end of the earth with all their vigour that it's 100% an obvious goal scoring opportunity! Now I've finished stirring the pot....I've got some chicken to marinade
He certainly didn't have control of the ball which is one of the checkpoints for DOGSO.
Gone from Bramall Lane to Champions League Semi final in a fortnight!!! Big call that, a correct call IMO, I've had that type of melee around me too at a much lower level. Time to get your laaa laaa laaa ears on and dispatch the main protagonist 100% correct!!!
NorthLondonRef
Active Member
But if you view the screenshot a couple of posts above, he's literally about to chest the ball and smash it into the net. I think it could be argued that a player playing for Real Madrid in the QF of the UCL is capable of sticking that in the net with his eyes closed. I think the reason he didn't was he was fouled, and factually at the point of the foul he didn't have complete control of the ball, but I'd factor in he's about 0.0001 seconds from scoring. I think that specific checkpoint could also be applied to if a ball was rolling across the six yard box and a player about to stick it in but he's fouled before he makes contact. I don't think there's too much difference because of the proximity to goal and quality of player and I don't think it's too dissimilar because it's not like the balls 2ft above him or something.
For what it's worth before I get the Nandos sauce out (other sauces are available), I personally think it's a penalty and a yellow based on the "attempt" to win the ball and previous opinion on what constitutes an attempt which may have swayed my judgement.
D
Deleted member 3014
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I think interpretation is the key word.
Plus it was the 90th min, I think Oliver was thinking I’ve made one hell of a big call here I think I can afford to let him off the red card although I thought it was a mandatory yellow even if you attempted to play the ball when awarding a pen (which would have been Benatia’s 2nd yellow, tbh even a refere of that ability just like with Atkinson the other day it pushes them to the limit infact I think the Manc derby and tonight pushed both beyond anything you would expect from a human being judging and making decisions with one view in real time with no replays, i mean we can’t agree on here an hour & a half later.
Oliver had some balls awarding it I must admit, it was a grey pen for me.
Plus it was the 90th min, I think Oliver was thinking I’ve made one hell of a big call here I think I can afford to let him off the red card although I thought it was a mandatory yellow even if you attempted to play the ball when awarding a pen (which would have been Benatia’s 2nd yellow, tbh even a refere of that ability just like with Atkinson the other day it pushes them to the limit infact I think the Manc derby and tonight pushed both beyond anything you would expect from a human being judging and making decisions with one view in real time with no replays, i mean we can’t agree on here an hour & a half later.
Oliver had some balls awarding it I must admit, it was a grey pen for me.
NorthLondonRef
Active Member
By God I'm tired of explaining to non refs why this penalty call was a great call..... My own brother who's a die hard real madrid fans doesn't see how it can be a Penalty! His words "but he was trying to get the ball!"
I'll tell you what I find interesting though. The contact on the back came ever so slightly before he tried to hook the ball away. I think Vazquez was already on the way down after he felt the touch so theoretically what happens afterwards is irrelevant but I envisage a scenario where the defender manages to get a big foot/kick on the ball and clear it away and it's deemed an acceptable tackle and no penalty by a referee at the time.
Seems to sway decision making and thinking a little bit. As I write this I'm recalling loads of challenges in Premier League games I've seen live at grounds recently where the defender gets a nudge in first on the attacker and in the same moment or a couple of microseconds later hooks the ball away and nothing is ever given.
Andrew Smith
New Member
Penalty or not, open to debate - more important Michael Oliver has just shown the 400 referees in the youth league I volunteer for who are 14, 15, 16 years of age, that one of our top referees gives them support when they are abused on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Well done Michael Oliver.
NorthLondonRef
Active Member
He had to I reckon. Had Benetia cleared the ball with his attempt, then Oliver has a decision to make. The fact he made no contact on the ball makes it easier and clearer for him to give the PK in my opinion.
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