Dive or play on (Video)

[Lefelee]

A friend sent me this clip, don't know what league or level this is but the decision is obviously incorrect.

What I wonder is whether this should be a dive or just play on? It appears that the player clips his own heel.

 

[Alex71]

Great video - shows the benefit of having extra officials behind the goal with the referee's view obstructed by a defender !!

Does look like he clips his own heels rather than dives ... looks like he has the opportunity to score (before the GK jumps on the ball) so no reason to purposely fall to the floor

Doesn't need an action by the referee (no wave of the arms or a shout of "play on")

I really hope there is an extended version out there that has the AR stepping in to 'help' the referee

 

[ref craig]

Definaterly no pen

 

[Lefelee]

The referee is very poorly positioned. Hope the AR asked the referee to overturn it, but I suspect that he could have been the one who takes the decision?

 

[Alex71]

It's a good video to learn / improve wrt positioning ...

I've found myself in the ref's position a few times and not seen stuff because of people in the way / having a poor angle

As the midfield player tacks across the pitch, the referee gets out of his way by moving backwards towards the half-way line ... and is then not seen in the camera shot before he is running towards the penalty spot

I guess the learning is to move earlier toward the (attacking) left-wing as - if not before - the play starts moving more centrally to get better view of play

 

[Aled]

I think it's not a dive, he doesn't ask for it and doesn't expect a penalty, he trips over his own feet I think so no penalty and play on for me. Defo not a pen or a dive

 

[deusex]

Having never been in a situation as an AR where the ref has got something so completely wrong I feel I must ask, how would go about getting the refs attention and politely informing him of his error?
Step 2 yards onto pitch with flag in air until he comes over?
What would you even say? How do you assist and not insist n this situation?
You'd almost certainly be going against his pre match instructions doing any of this.

 

[Jacko]

The referee is poorly positioned, and by the looks of it he's seen a foul which isn't there.

As an assistant referee, your job is to follow the referee's instructions. He or she is the referee, they have made the decision, they haven't involved their assistant so its their call. Running on the line you may not of seen it clearly. If they came over I'd tell them what I'd saw and that it wasn't a foul but once a referee has made a call like that they won't be coming over and I won't be calling them to me.

 

[mikedn]

I have watched this video frame by frame at the time of his fall... IMO the player has deliberatley tripped himself and looking for a penalty hard to call as it was so quick but as no player was near him (ref should have at least seen that)....... No penalty i would be of the opinion he at least fell over his own feet............

 

[Jacko]

I have watched this video frame by frame at the time of his fall... IMO the player has deliberatley tripped himself and looking for a penalty hard to call as it was so quick but as no player was near him (ref should have at least seen that)....... No penalty i would be of the opinion he at least fell over his own feet............

The referee is too quick for us to see the reaction of the player who fell to see whether he would have appealed for a penalty.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I don't think it was a dive. Aside from the player not reacting (although that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a dive, and we shouldn't only book players who appeal), he looked too far away from everybody to dive, and nothing suggested he was preparing for it.

The referee is poorly positioned, and by the looks of it he's seen a foul which isn't there.

As an assistant referee, your job is to follow the referee's instructions. He or she is the referee, they have made the decision, they haven't involved their assistant so its their call. Running on the line you may not of seen it clearly. If they came over I'd tell them what I'd saw and that it wasn't a foul but once a referee has made a call like that they won't be coming over and I won't be calling them to me.

Would speaking to the referee be ASSISTing or INSISTing here?
The referee has very clearly made the wrong decision. If, as the AR, you can see that there is absolutely no question that the player hasn't been touched then IMO the AR should be speaking to the referee here. that IS helping the referee. IMO we place way too much value on these esoteric notions of 'looking like a team' and crap like that rather than actually getting decisions right. Just one of the many problems of refereeing these days. It should be the rare case when the AR has to say 'that wasn't a foul', but the AR should be able to do so at times. And if you can see the nearest player was 2 yards away, then that should be one of those cases.
Awarding a blatantly wrong penalty makes the team look far stupider than one of the team members saying 'hey, wrong call buddy' and the other saying 'ok, cool, thanks for your help, I've got it right now'. More people in power and coaching roles need to realise that, IMO.
Now, if only we actually took 'mobbing the ref' seriously, how many cards would we have there for dissent? ;-)

 

[SM]

As Jacko said, depends on the prematch speech. I tend to hear "if I go with penalty, go with me. We will talk about it after the game if I am wrong"

The ref gave no time for assistance from his AR. even if the AR saw what happened his only option is to keep his mouth shut and move to his position for the penalty.

 

[Mooseybaby]

Never a dive for me....

Probably drunk or just rubbish, tripped over his own feet!

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

As Jacko said, depends on the prematch speech. I tend to hear "if I go with penalty, go with me. We will talk about it after the game if I am wrong"

The ref gave no time for assistance from his AR. even if the AR saw what happened his only option is to keep his mouth shut and move to his position for the penalty.

Given that we're all in agreement about the dive, I'd like to divert the thread to discuss that further.

Why is that the AR's only option? Why do we insist that unity is more important than correct decisions?

 

[DanCohen17]

Given that we're all in agreement about the dive, I'd like to divert the thread to discuss that further.

Why is that the AR's only option? Why do we insist that unity is more important than correct decisions?

Credibility and match control is more important at the time than an opinion-based call

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Are they more important than a call that everybody at the ground knows is wrong?

 

[Jacko]

Are they more important than a call that everybody at the ground knows is wrong?

What instructions do you usually give to Nuetral assistants or receive from a referee?

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Why do you ask?
I'm querying what the accepted 'norm' or mentality is, rather than criticising any particular individual. The idea is not just relevant to this particular scenario, either.

 

[deusex]

I see what capt is sayingt, if the call is so wrong that we've lost all credibility already. I see no harm in having a quick chat.
Although if you remember the incident with Celtic a few years back where the referee changed his mind. That incident was probably worse than if he'd just given the incorrect pen.

 

[Jacko]

It's a matter of opinion as Dan says.

If I as the referee have decided to give a penalty, then that's my decision. I don't want my assistant to tell me I am wrong, in his/her opinion. (Unless I was incorrect in law) I'd kindly tell remind them to take their position.