JudgeDreadful
Member
They should come down on the club like a tonne of bricks. A huge points deduction minimum.
Turkish Referee Halil Umet Meler punched by club president
- Thread starter mctones
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RefIADad
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While the behavior of Klopp and Arteta likely wasn't going through the minds of these people as they were kicking and punching Meler, I don't think it's a stretch to say that the condoning of abusive behavior in the world's most-watched football competition eventually trickles down to others who feel it's OK to conduct themselves in anything less than a professional and respectful manner.
Premier League coaches and players, whether they choose to admit or not, help set the worldwide standard of conduct for the game. When people see them get away with what they get away with, everyone who is watching them can be emboldened. That behavior then gets mimicked in lower leagues, whether they are grassroots leagues or professional leagues in other countries.
It's an ongoing conversation I have with our club directors locally in my role with referee mentoring and development. When I sit down with a director and express issues with a particular coach or team's behavior, one of the things I say is that the coach sets the example and represents the club. On the teams that my son has played on, the amount of inappropriate behavior from players and parents was directly correlated by the coaches' behavior. If the coach was calm and didn't say anything toward officials, neither did the parents and players. If the coach gripes a lot, the parents gripe a lot.
Southerner In The North
Well-Known Member
I actually think punishment at professional level are to harsh on coaches particularly regarding comments in the media we teach kids lying is wrong but the expect Managers to not answer or lie when asked a direct question or punish them for being honest not a good example to kids
R
Runner-Ref
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Are they punished for being honest? Gary O'Neil in particular has been honest as far as we know, and he hasn't been punished.
Arteta wasn't banned for something he said, but for his childish behaviour over and over on the touchline. Same goes for ETH.
De Zerbi has done nothing but moan and has even described not liking the referees, yet he hasn't been banned for those particular comments. (His bans were for cards)
No one is saying managers cannot be honest, but the problem is, they tend to try and twist things to take the blame from themselves & their players, and place it on the officials.
As someone said earlier on, it should be some form of stadium ban really.
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
It is not difficult to say something to the effect of, "I disagreed with the particular call, but that was the call and we must respect the final decision." Managers don't get in trouble because they say they disagree with calls. They get in trouble when their behavior and comments crosses the line from professional disagreement to attacking.
To be completely candid, I had a situation happen a couple of years ago where a game went down the toilet and the coach emailed me after the game. He wanted to discuss some items about the game. All I asked him was to involve the assignor and me in the discussion. He was very professional about things, but he made his point about why he disagreed with how things went. To be fair, he had a point on a decent number of the items. But the fact that he was willing to deal with things in that manner shows you can have a professional discussion about matters with which you disagree. Yes, there were some things I could have done better, but I was also able to show examples where the teams were there to beat each other up and not play soccer despite anything the referee team did, and I made that point clear to my assignor as well.
No one has ever said referees are immune from disagreement or criticism (despite with the general population wants to believe).
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To be clear, I don't debate at all that manager behaviour can influence grass roots behaviour. What I was saying is that it didn't influence or encourage this behaviour, where you get to a situation that a club president is going to race down from the stands to assault a referee all logic goes out of the window.
They can absolutely say that they thought the referee made a mistake. Where they get themselves in trouble is they they make it personal and make out that it was in some way biased. I do have some sympathy for the managers as they are put in front of a microphone immediately after the game ends and when their emotions are still running high. But even then they need to show some class, Eddie Howe had a decision go against his team that was far, far worse than Arteta had. One behaved with absolute decorum and grace, the other behaved like a spoilt child (will let you decide which was which
)socal lurker
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Hmm so what do you think is appropriate pnishment for punching a ref?
one
RefChat Addict
A player called a friend referee a short fat b@stard. He wasn't lying and was honest about our colleague's appearance and state of birth. My friend was 164cm, 85 kg and was born out of wedlock. Should he have send the player off?
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mctones
Member
So Koca with a lifetime ban (and ongoing criminal charges) but all the club received was a £54,000 fine and 5 home games without fans. Pathetic.
www.bbc.co.uk
Koca given permanent ban for referee punch
MKE Ankaragucu president Faruk Koca receives a permanent ban for punching referee Halil Umut Meler, says the Turkish Football Federation.
www.bbc.co.uk
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
RefIADad
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To be honest, I think the comments of @one were sarcastic in nature to show that even if something is considered factual that it can still absolutely be grounds for dismissal. This goes back to the reply saying that players and managers shouldn't be punished if their comments are factual even if they cross the line from professional disagreement to attacking.
Comments like Arteta's "embarrassing and a disgrace" rant and de Zerbi's "I don't like 80% of English referees" are unacceptable. In the case of de Zerbi, maybe he really doesn't like 4 out of 5 PGMOL referees. But comments like these are public, personal, and provocative. Personally, I feel like if referees will eventually be allowed/required to speak in press conferences, then they should be able to criticize players and coaches. I think it would be fun for Michael Oliver to say something like, "Man, that Haaland - how in the world do you miss an open sitter like that??" or Anthony Taylor to say "Guardiola's substitution in the 65th minute was ridiculous - Manchester City was being completely overrun down the flanks, and he adds another guy into the midfield. The hell is that guy thinking??"
(Note my sarcasm in the last paragraph - I don't think officials should stoop to that level of unprofessional behavior under any circumstance. But it would be pretty entertaining!)
Southerner In The North
Well-Known Member
I’m referring to the Arteta incident mentioned and apparently I’m correct as independent panel agrees
He employed a very expensive QC to get him off on a technicality, no different to wealthy people that hire Nick Freeman (known as Mr Loophole) on megabucks to get them off driving bans. Because he didn't name anyone he supposedly can't have been guilty of any offence. Hopefully the FA are now rewriting their disciplinary procedures to make sure that can't happen again.
It's not a good example to kids when this so called honesty only comes out when they feel aggrieved with the officials performance. Surely, the best example to kids is showing respect, understanding, compassion and so on in the face of perceived adversity.
You have to remember that players, managers and fans are biased, the officials are not. Also the players and managers try to deceive the officials throughout the game and the media circus is to try and influence officials to make decisions in their teams favour. Is this a good example for the children?
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
I don't really know if I'd take a victory lap being on the same side as the "independent panel". Their decisions usually don't jive with reality, but normally just follow what the players and coaches want to see happen.
City v Spurs, Haaland hit a referee and no one seemed to bat an eyelid (even on here!). No ban, no media coverage, no Webb and Owen in-depth analysis, nothing.
A week later a ref gets assaulted. I know they aren't linked, but if you were to come down strong on players hitting a referee, it would probably help prevent incidents like this.
A week later a ref gets assaulted. I know they aren't linked, but if you were to come down strong on players hitting a referee, it would probably help prevent incidents like this.
Southerner In The North
Well-Known Member
I like loopholes and hope to see this more in future
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