A&H

Advice needed

Xavier

Xavier

Member
Hi,
I had a u14 game today. Right from the start it was an end to end game. I am a referee who likes to play I don't stop for every little contact. As the game progressed the players started getting agitated that I'm not calling those fouls. In the second half I gave a free kick in the attacking third and the player that got fouled and the player that fouled both squared up and starting Pushing each other. I immediately run between them and pushed them apart. 2 yellow cards were given.

Now my question.
Could this situation have been avoided if I gave ABIT more fouls.

Should I change my refereeing style and give out more free kicks even for the little kicks that have little to no impact.

Thanks
 
The Referee Store
Players will react for a whole host of reasons, agitation and the idea of taking “matters into their own hands” is one of them.

If you feel the “temperature” (aggression almost) of the game rising, that’s when you can start to slow it down, give slightly more contact and lower your threshold, it can give you a foothold in the game again.

Far more experienced refs will have far better explanations.

One thing I picked up on was running into the incident and pushing them apart. Try to stay completely out of confrontations physically, especially touching players - as a rule of thumb
 
george.g said:
Players will react for a whole host of reasons, agitation and the idea of taking “matters into their own hands” is one of them.

If you feel the “temperature” (aggression almost) of the game rising, that’s when you can start to slow it down, give slightly more contact and lower your threshold, it can give you a foothold in the game again.

Far more experienced refs will have far better explanations.

One thing I picked up on was running into the incident and pushing them apart. Try to stay completely out of confrontations physically, especially touching players - as a rule of thumb
Click to expand...
Thank you for your advice. The reason I tried to push them apart is I didn't want them to hurt eachother. Maybe I should have stayed out. I'm 16 so I am still learning and I will definitely keep that in mind for next time.

With the little fouls I sometimes find it difficult to find the threshold of what is a foul especially if they don't fall over.
 
george.g said:
Players will react for a whole host of reasons, agitation and the idea of taking “matters into their own hands” is one of them.

If you feel the “temperature” (aggression almost) of the game rising, that’s when you can start to slow it down, give slightly more contact and lower your threshold, it can give you a foothold in the game again.

Far more experienced refs will have far better explanations.

One thing I picked up on was running into the incident and pushing them apart. Try to stay completely out of confrontations physically, especially touching players - as a rule of thumb
Click to expand...

Agree with this.. and only because I have learnt from experience ..

As a teacher I’m used to running in and splitting things up .. hard to make a decision in the moment but I have done it before on the football pitch and missed things that are going on around me because I’m right in the middle. You could also put yourself in harms way and there’s also the argument that you shouldn’t really be coming into contact with players especially children if you can help it. That said, it sounds like you managed it well, players know that’s wrong to do.
 
I appreciate you
Redref34 said:
Agree with this.. and only because I have learnt from experience ..

As a teacher I’m used to running in and splitting things up .. hard to make a decision in the moment but I have done it before on the football pitch and missed things that are going on around me because I’m right in the middle. You could also put yourself in harms way and there’s also the argument that you shouldn’t really be coming into contact with players especially children if you can help it. That said, it sounds like you managed it well, players know that’s wrong to do.
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I appreciate your advice and maybe I should have stayed out and let the situation calm down. I kind of reacted on instincts. I'll keep that in mind for next time. However noone was complaining after the game and everyone said I managed the game well because it was a very tough game
 
Xavier said:
I appreciate you

I appreciate your advice and maybe I should have stayed out and let the situation calm down. I kind of reacted on instincts. I'll keep that in mind for next time. However noone was complaining after the game and everyone said I managed the game well because it was a very tough game
Click to expand...

It’s one of those things that probably next time I’ll end up jumping in anyway having said it’s best not to! Instincts!
 
Xavier said:
Hi,
I had a u14 game today. Right from the start it was an end to end game. I am a referee who likes to play I don't stop for every little contact. As the game progressed the players started getting agitated that I'm not calling those fouls. In the second half I gave a free kick in the attacking third and the player that got fouled and the player that fouled both squared up and starting Pushing each other. I immediately run between them and pushed them apart. 2 yellow cards were given.
I think 14U
Click to expand...
When players from both teams are frustrated that you aren’t calling fouls, it’s usually a pretty good clue that your foul bar is too high for the game at hand. Fouls that are trifling and should not be called at higher levels of play need to be called at lower levels. Part of the art of refereeing is understanding what this game needs in terms of where that foul bar is. I think 14U can vary a lot in what teams expect Depending on skill and experience. So, not having been there. I suspect you would have been better off tightening things up with a lower foul bar in this particular game.
 
socal lurker said:
When players from both teams are frustrated that you aren’t calling fouls, it’s usually a pretty good clue that your foul bar is too high for the game at hand. Fouls that are trifling and should not be called at higher levels of play need to be called at lower levels. Part of the art of refereeing is understanding what this game needs in terms of where that foul bar is. I think 14U can vary a lot in what teams expect Depending on skill and experience. So, not having been there. I suspect you would have been better off tightening things up with a lower foul bar in this particular game.
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Can I ask when would you decide how to referee the game like at what moment would you say right that's enough I'm going to start calling more fouls
 
Xavier said:
Can I ask when would you decide how to referee the game like at what moment would you say right that's enough I'm going to start calling more fouls
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I think this goes back to the "temperature" that @george.g mentioned. You will get a feel for the tensions rising, players getting frustrated, calling for more fouls, dissent levels rising, starting to kick out a bit. Sometimes it's just a feeling. You can tell something is simmering.
 
Xavier said:
Can I ask when would you decide how to referee the game like at what moment would you say right that's enough I'm going to start calling more fouls
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the question is a bit like “how high is up?” As you get more experience, you get more of a feel for the game as a referee. You will learn the balancing act that allows you to be attuned to how players are experiencing the game without being deferential to th‘em. And you’ll bring more insight into where the line should be in the particular game base on what you know about the league, the age, the gender, the level, etc. And then you adjust throughout the game as you see how the players are playing.

I still find it challenging going from one level to another in short order on the same day. If I call a 19U game the way I call a 12U game, they are going to be frustrated that they can’t play. And if I call a 12U game the way I call a 19U game, the players (and parents!) are going to be frustrated that’s it’s much too physical.

There is no true magic here. it’s something that gets easier with experience, but even experienced referees end up with the bar in the wrong place. (And where it gets particularly difficult is when the teams are different in what they expect—it is sometimes hard to find a bar that the teams agree on if one team is much more physical than the other.)
 
Xavier said:
Thank you for your advice. The reason I tried to push them apart is I didn't want them to hurt eachother. Maybe I should have stayed out. I'm 16 so I am still learning and I will definitely keep that in mind for next time.

With the little fouls I sometimes find it difficult to find the threshold of what is a foul especially if they don't fall over.
Click to expand...
Well I'd say that you would play advantage unless the player loses the ball in which case you bring it back for the previous foul
 
Xavier said:
Thank you for your advice. The reason I tried to push them apart is I didn't want them to hurt eachother. Maybe I should have stayed out. I'm 16 so I am still learning and I will definitely keep that in mind for next time.

With the little fouls I sometimes find it difficult to find the threshold of what is a foul especially if they don't fall over.
Click to expand...
There is value in trying to separate/desecalate 2 players who are squaring up if you're the first one there and can take control with your whistle. Stopping a mass con is always preferable to managing one.

Never initiate contact with a player - they won't necessarily realise you're the ref in the moment and if they try to swipe you away, you've created a difficult decision.

As soon as a 3rd player arrives, they're either going to drag their own player away or shove an opponent. If the former, there's no need to be in close, if the latter, you want to be 2 or 3 steps back for a better view of what happens next. So either way, you aren't best served being in the middle of it at that point. So if you are going to try and stop this from happening, be very quick to react and move away if it doesn't immediately calm things down.
 
Are you communicating your non-decisions?

If players think you are missing things, then they can lose trust. If you communicate the non-decisions and are active then you can keep their trust even if they have a different opinion. ”I’ve seen it, carry on”, ”go on”, ”not enough for me”, ”just small contact”, ”carry on, try to play the ball..” etc etc whatever works for you.

Also watch for little fouls that cause loss of possession. While no one wants ”no contact water polo refereeing” players/coaches - especially youth levels - get annoyed if they keep losing the ball from little niggly ”fouls”.
 
Was jus to to say what santa has said above. Players and the side-lines accept it more and allow you to get on with it more if you are communicating clearly that you have seen these niggling fouls but want to play on.

Regarding pushing players, save yourself a whole world of pain and do not push the players even if they are squaring up to each other. You could be accused of assault. A teacher splitting fights up in an education setting is different to a referee pushing 2 children apart. Use de-escalation techniques, whistle, communicate loud and clear, guide players away without touching them but don't push them, protect yourself from allegations.
 
Just going to join @Gamespoiler and @santa sangria in saying communication counts for a lot.

I’m quite a nervous person, my first couple of seasons I was very quiet and I still am. The only time I shout is advantage or to communicate a non-decision “it’s still in play” or “no thank you play on” are two easy ones if you don’t have a clear line in the moment. Gives you time to come up with one before the next stop in play 😂
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Just going to join @Gamespoiler and @santa sangria in saying communication counts for a lot.

I’m quite a nervous person, my first couple of seasons I was very quiet and I still am. The only time I shout is advantage or to communicate a non-decision “it’s still in play” or “no thank you play on” are two easy ones if you don’t have a clear line in the moment. Gives you time to come up with one before the next stop in play 😂
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What changed it for me was I got promoted with the flag and started working with really good referees, well trained, with comms.

Then I heard and experienced just how much some top referees communicate. And the use of different “characters” in dealing with players.

The main realisation for me was that communicating non-decisions leads to a drop in dissent. You can never eradicate dissent but it’s not the biggest surprise that there are no more “wake up”s, “get in the game”, “how did you miss that…” etc. if you’ve just said “OK for me” or even “sorry, I didn’t see it.”
 
Some really good tips there. I agree, it's good to just say something to acknowledge you've seen the incident, otherwise they think you've missed them as opposed to letting the game run. My favourites are "keep playing".."keep going".."not enough for me".."don't worry, I saw it" etc. Being self critical is a good trait and will make you a better referee in the long run. Keep it going, Xavier !!!!
 
socal lurker said:
When players from both teams are frustrated that you aren’t calling fouls, it’s usually a pretty good clue that your foul bar is too high for the game at hand. Fouls that are trifling and should not be called at higher levels of play need to be called at lower levels. Part of the art of refereeing is understanding what this game needs in terms of where that foul bar is. I think 14U can vary a lot in what teams expect Depending on skill and experience. So, not having been there. I suspect you would have been better off tightening things up with a lower foul bar in this particular game.
Click to expand...
Really good advice and something I'm still learning after a year and half and 50 odd middles.

And you're so right about expectations varying from match to match all the way from U11 through to U15/16, plus the age old "can't win" debate of "that's soft/nitpicky" or "letting too much go." The concept of normal football contact remains alien to a lot of kids, particularly upto U13!
 
Some of the L7s and L6s I have seen struggle are those that just won't talk to the players. One of the worst things you can do as a referee is ignore players, if they ask you what a decision was for calmly answer them. If they don't accept that then you shouldn't have an ongoing debate about it and can shut that down with something like "you asked a question and I gave you the answer, we aren't having a debate about it".
 
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