The Ref Stop

Misconduct Personal Hearing

p4yno

Well-Known Member
I've been meaning to post about this experience. I have not been on for a while.

In December I refereed a fixture, thought I had a great game, 6 cautions, three for each side. Unfortunately and there's always one, an away player constantly questioning every decision to the point he was cautioned for dissent. Towards the end of the game, a flash point, two players following a tackle, square up to each other, heads close (no headbutts), both were cautioned for AA.

Full time, the player I cautioned for dissent (mid 40's) is at the side of the pitch. I see and hear him clearly shout "c*&t, c*&t, c*&t" and "disgrace" he makes eye contact with me and points at me. Following this, as game KO'd late, fault of the away side I had not had my match fee, the player shouting at me is the club contact. I speak to the captain and said could he retrieve my match fee, he agrees. He comes back to me to say the club contact is refusing and wants to hand it to me personally. I agree but state to the captain please run ahead and say anything further said will also be reported to the FA. The club contact says "you cautioned me as you don't like me, like my woman and your woman." I have no idea what he is going on about. I get my match fee and walk away.

Misconduct Report filed with my respective CFA.

I got a text the following day from the secretary for the away side commenting on how good I refereed, despite me cautioning three of their players and commented what an idiot the player was who was causing problems. This is rare. I get emailed by league secretary who has been contacted by away side and state the same thing.

The player in which I filed a misconduct report requests a personal hearing. No biggy, I have been to hearings before. I work in the Police so I am used to giving evidence, it does not phase me.

I get to the hearing, which I don't mind. The player admits to using the words, admitted pointing in my direction but said it was towards someone behind me...? He has a witness, one of his teammates, he admits using swear words too and also the word "c*&t" . He admits referring to "my woman" when he eventually gave me my match fee and said he shouldn't of said it. It was silly. I went away thinking well he is bang to rights, as panel decide on the balance of probabilities, thus what is more likely than not, 51%, everything I have said in my report is factually correct word for word, it is not disputed apart from the player says he was referring to someone else.

I phone my CFA the following day to get the outcome, I am told "not proven" thus on the word of a player who has admitted that he repeatedly called "someone" a c**t. I am thinking what else can I do as a referee in this position if I am alone, if I am part of a trio then its a lot different. Its just annoying as in any other walk of life, he would have been arrested for Public Order.

I was furious. I spoke to a fellow refereeing colleague to vent my anger. Advice was move on, at these hearings as soon as you leave, then forget it. I felt let down by my CFA, especially when something like this happens, if someone was weaker I would not argue someone leaving refereeing as this type of abuse is not on.

I am interested for your comments and if anyone else had a similar experience.
 
The Ref Stop
I've been meaning to post about this experience. I have not been on for a while.

In December I refereed a fixture, thought I had a great game, 6 cautions, three for each side. Unfortunately and there's always one, an away player constantly questioning every decision to the point he was cautioned for dissent. Towards the end of the game, a flash point, two players following a tackle, square up to each other, heads close (no headbutts), both were cautioned for AA.

Full time, the player I cautioned for dissent (mid 40's) is at the side of the pitch. I see and hear him clearly shout "c*&t, c*&t, c*&t" and "disgrace" he makes eye contact with me and points at me. Following this, as game KO'd late, fault of the away side I had not had my match fee, the player shouting at me is the club contact. I speak to the captain and said could he retrieve my match fee, he agrees. He comes back to me to say the club contact is refusing and wants to hand it to me personally. I agree but state to the captain please run ahead and say anything further said will also be reported to the FA. The club contact says "you cautioned me as you don't like me, like my woman and your woman." I have no idea what he is going on about. I get my match fee and walk away.

Misconduct Report filed with my respective CFA.

I got a text the following day from the secretary for the away side commenting on how good I refereed, despite me cautioning three of their players and commented what an idiot the player was who was causing problems. This is rare. I get emailed by league secretary who has been contacted by away side and state the same thing.

The player in which I filed a misconduct report requests a personal hearing. No biggy, I have been to hearings before. I work in the Police so I am used to giving evidence, it does not phase me.

I get to the hearing, which I don't mind. The player admits to using the words, admitted pointing in my direction but said it was towards someone behind me...? He has a witness, one of his teammates, he admits using swear words too and also the word "c*&t" . He admits referring to "my woman" when he eventually gave me my match fee and said he shouldn't of said it. It was silly. I went away thinking well he is bang to rights, as panel decide on the balance of probabilities, thus what is more likely than not, 51%, everything I have said in my report is factually correct word for word, it is not disputed apart from the player says he was referring to someone else.

I phone my CFA the following day to get the outcome, I am told "not proven" thus on the word of a player who has admitted that he repeatedly called "someone" a c**t. I am thinking what else can I do as a referee in this position if I am alone, if I am part of a trio then its a lot different. Its just annoying as in any other walk of life, he would have been arrested for Public Order.

I was furious. I spoke to a fellow refereeing colleague to vent my anger. Advice was move on, at these hearings as soon as you leave, then forget it. I felt let down by my CFA, especially when something like this happens, if someone was weaker I would not argue someone leaving refereeing as this type of abuse is not on.

I am interested for your comments and if anyone else had a similar experience.

Think the panel have let you down by the sound of it mate, massively.

What was he actually charged with though: I.e. What was the initial charge that he asked for a hearing on?
 
I felt the same. My account word for word was spot on, his defence was, he was directing to someone else and his witness was a teammate who admitted using the C word also. You can imagine what type of human uses these words in anger in a public place. I wouldn't put them top of the nice and reasonable person type. I was like, I am acting as a witness on behalf of the FA, therefore what else could I do?? He was charged with E3 abusive and / or insulting words towards a match official
 
This is why I hold the judiciary in the area I originally refereed in the utmost contempt - because they're such morons they would have made the same decision. I fail to see how people who have never even read the LOTG can make behind-the-desk decisions on the LOTG.
The correct response to 'I was saying it at somebody behind the referee' is 'so what?' - it's still a red card offence. Maybe a shorter suspension, but still a red card. So to let the player off is just sheer incompetence.
i think judiciaries have a responsibility to filter out complaints they shouldn't even hear. This shouldn't even have seen the light of day.
I once had a player deliberately shoulder bump me so I sent him off. Of course his whole team wrote in saying they saw no such thing (because I'm sure the sub from 100 yards away has a clear view and all...) and he was let off for the exact same reason - I couldn't prove it happened.

From that precedent I can only presume that the judiciary firmly believes that no red cards should ever result in a suspension as the referee can never prove it happened. Do they expect the referee to carry a body camera like police do? How else is the referee supposed to 'prove' it? I think what angers me is the sheer, mindboggling, dribbling stupidity of such a comment - how on earth is the referee supposed to prove any of his claims? The fact that the player's own testimony was more than enough for a red card and a suspension is further testament to how the mob of ignorami that served on your panel should never be allowed anywhere near a football field, committee or panel ever again.
 
What did you report him for? The comments made after you had warned the club captain to tell him that any further verbals would earn him a report? Or the abuse from the touchline?

I would've had him at the repeated c-bomb's from the touchline. If you hadn't yet left the field of play you would've been well within your rights to show him a red card as he was a player and put it through as S6 which can't be appealed.
Would've got him a 2 game ban at least.

Apart from that, don't be too surprised at your CFA not backing you up.....happens all the time. Just forget about it and move on to the next game.
 
I've been let down by my CFA so many times that this actually doesn't surprise me.

The process is so heavily weighted in favour of the players that, in most cases, a verdict of not proven is almost inevitable; here you have a player who has admitted to pretty much everything contained within the report, yet the charge still cannot be proven. How, as the referee, are we supposed to "prove" that something has happened? Often, there is a lone match official, whose report is weighted against the player and their numerous so called witnesses who obviously dispute what happened.

This may not be the case, but I take the view that by finding the charge not proven, they've concluded on the balance of probabilities that the referee is a liar! The CFA's need to start showing some respect to their match officials. They constantly let referees down then wonder why more than ever are leaving the game.
 
What does anyone think of wearing a small clip-on body camera? £20-30 gets you one that would do the job perfectly. I don't mean in regards to whether the LotG allow it (as they probably don't), but the principle behind it? My one concern is that clubs/players would try and request the referee's video if they appealed any decision, but other than that it feels as if it could be a good measure?
 
I know it's a different game, especially as regards the attitude towards referees but rugby referees wearing a "Ref-Cam" don't seem to have any problems.
I thought the use of them in the Rugby World Cup added to the spectacle. One particularly memorable moment when Nigel Owens was giving a dressing down to two, huge players - to which they both responded "Yes sir", and got back on with the game. At the grass roots level of football, I just wonder whether the players knowing that the referee was wearing a body cam might cut down on some of the misconduct - not bad fouls, which is typically honest, eager play; more the dissent (whether from players or managers/coaches). Of course, it would need to be backed up by the CFA's, which I guess is another story...
 
I know it's a different game, especially as regards the attitude towards referees but rugby referees wearing a "Ref-Cam" don't seem to have any problems.
Different sport with entirely different approach to referees....and aren't those only at the top levels anyway? Different again.
 
RefCam is great in rugby. I think it would be an eye opener if football adopted it at the higher levels and all the nonsense from our highest ranking officials about not hearing abuse from players would be proven as non truths. I think it is something that needs to happen, start to try and get some respect back into football.

As for lower level refs, we have enough to worry about without having to get cameras!!!!
 
RefCam is great in rugby. I think it would be an eye opener if football adopted it at the higher levels and all the nonsense from our highest ranking officials about not hearing abuse from players would be proven as non truths. I think it is something that needs to happen, start to try and get some respect back into football.

As for lower level refs, we have enough to worry about without having to get cameras!!!!
Exactly.

Wait until after a game and they came knocking on your door asking to view footage about something, whether it be a decision or otherwise.

In an ideal world it wold work very well.

But in an ideal world we wouldn't need it to start with...
 
What does anyone think of wearing a small clip-on body camera? £20-30 gets you one that would do the job perfectly. I don't mean in regards to whether the LotG allow it (as they probably don't), but the principle behind it? My one concern is that clubs/players would try and request the referee's video if they appealed any decision, but other than that it feels as if it could be a good measure?
Prohibited by The FA
 
1) You were let down by your CFA, massively. "Not proven" is the same as saying "made up" in my mind and it can't conceivably be the most reasonable finding in this case.

2) Maybe take this note away: next time don't specify that he was directing his comments at you, just that he made comments. Be as robotically factual as you can be.

3) Now you have to move on and not give this any more time or mind. Nothing else you can do.
 
@Ryan Owens my report was factual and to the point, he used the words, pointed in my direction and made eye contact with me. I was sure not to add any opinion in it.

I was speaking to a refereeing colleague the other day, much worse situation, he was threatened personally after a game to be stabbed, obviously Police became involved as well as the respective FA, he denied using words, one persons word against another, same as my case, however this CFA result was proven. Think it just depends who you get I think.

I have moved on now, just left a sour taste in my mouth. End of the day, I was paid to attend so it paid for my fuel for the week. I can't change the result or outcome.
 
Can you give me a link for this please Brian? I've tried looking through the FA Handbook but haven't found anything. (Not doubting you btw, it's just for my own curiosity!)
It was published on my County website a couple of seasons ago and their archive doesn't stretch that far :(
 
@Ryan Owens my report was factual and to the point, he used the words, pointed in my direction and made eye contact with me. I was sure not to add any opinion in it.

I was speaking to a refereeing colleague the other day, much worse situation, he was threatened personally after a game to be stabbed, obviously Police became involved as well as the respective FA, he denied using words, one persons word against another, same as my case, however this CFA result was proven. Think it just depends who you get I think.

I have moved on now, just left a sour taste in my mouth. End of the day, I was paid to attend so it paid for my fuel for the week. I can't change the result or outcome.

From your OP, it sounds like you said that he "pointed at me" as opposed to "pointed in my direction" which are two different things, albeit a slight (and semantic) difference. We often have to write like lawyers in these situations because FAs and CFAs almost always take a player's side in he-said-she-said situations.
 
Back
Top