A&H

“Leave it, “mine”

A

Andyrob0880

New Member
Level 7 Referee
A lot of debate going on at the moment over if shouting leave it or mine should result in a free kick and when.

I coached a team recently and every time a player said one of these phrases the referee blew up and awarded a IDFK.

Now I can’t see anywhere in IFAB’s stating this is the case.. the closest thing is maybe trying to put off a player to unsportsmanlike conduct!!

Any one know any definitive answer on this
 
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There is no list of banned phrases or things you cannot say. You can say whatever if you want.

It is only an offence if what you say distracts an opponent.

Eg - if you are a centre back and you shout 'leave it' and the forward in front of you on the opposing team who was going to challenge for the ball stops as a result of your shout, then it is an offence

Eg - if you are a goalkeeper and you shout 'leave it' as your own centre back is about to make a clearance, and he leaves it, then it is not an offence.

Theres plenty of other threads on this if you have a quick search and should find the answers you need, probably more eloquently explained by one of the regular posters on here.
 
No, no, and no. It is only an offence if the referee deems it is verbally distracting an opponent, and the outcome for that can only be an IDFK and a caution. Any referee just giving an IDFK is completely incorrect in law and should be sacked (OK, a bit strong, but I hate that referees keep doing this and perpetuating the myth).
 
My late father (a former referee) once had an incident where a defender shouted "leave it Clive" to a teammate but unfortunately the opposing attacker's name was also Clive and he pulled out of the challenge. My father hesitated and then decided to do nothing as he wasn't sure what to do!! Is this is an example of putting an opponent off and, if so, what should he have done?
 
For the umpteenth time I had this conversation with someone, only the other week.

"What?! You can shout 'leave it', wow!"
 
CapeTownRef said:
My late father (a former referee) once had an incident where a defender shouted "leave it Clive" to a teammate but unfortunately the opposing attacker's name was also Clive and he pulled out of the challenge. My father hesitated and then decided to do nothing as he wasn't sure what to do!! Is this is an example of putting an opponent off and, if so, what should he have done?
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Yes.

IDFK and caution.
 
Long story. Bare with me. I reffed a cup final a few years ago and in the first 10 mins a striker was standing in an offside position (by absolutely miles). The ball was knocked over the defence. The Right Back of the attacking team (who had lightening pace) made a brilliant run from deep past all the midfield and the strikers. He screamed "leave it" to the striker standing offside, who promptly put his arms in the air to signal he was going nowhere near it. The RB burst through, collected the ball, rounded the keeper and scored. The defensive team went berserk. "he can't say LEAVE IT". I gave myself a few seconds and promptly awarded the goal. It was clear who the RB was shouting to. I didn't think he deliberately said it to put any of the defenders off.
Anyway, at Half Time, the losing manger stormed into the refs changing room (they were 3-0 down by this stage). "HE CAN'T SAY LEAVE IT ON A FOOTBALL FIELD, REF", he shouted at me. I was sure I was right, but you start to doubt yourself. Then, one of the my AR's (an elderly ref) reached into his kitbag and pulled out a copy of the LOTG. The AR said "Fella, show me in there where it says that the lad can't say leave it, if it's clearly aimed at his own player ?". The manager slammed the door and went back to his team.
 
socal lurker said:
IMO, his day should have been over.
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His team were hot favourites, aswell. They should never have been 3-0 down by HT, but this decision really played on their minds and they totally lost focus. They were brilliant in the 2nd half. Settled down and played some great football, but couldn't break the other team down and lost 3-0.
 
BCMilan said:
Long story. Bare with me. I reffed a cup final a few years ago and in the first 10 mins a striker was standing in an offside position (by absolutely miles). The ball was knocked over the defence. The Right Back of the attacking team (who had lightening pace) made a brilliant run from deep past all the midfield and the strikers. He screamed "leave it" to the striker standing offside, who promptly put his arms in the air to signal he was going nowhere near it. The RB burst through, collected the ball, rounded the keeper and scored. The defensive team went berserk. "he can't say LEAVE IT". I gave myself a few seconds and promptly awarded the goal. It was clear who the RB was shouting to. I didn't think he deliberately said it to put any of the defenders off.
Anyway, at Half Time, the losing manger stormed into the refs changing room (they were 3-0 down by this stage). "HE CAN'T SAY LEAVE IT ON A FOOTBALL FIELD, REF", he shouted at me. I was sure I was right, but you start to doubt yourself. Then, one of the my AR's (an elderly ref) reached into his kitbag and pulled out a copy of the LOTG. The AR said "Fella, show me in there where it says that the lad can't say leave it, if it's clearly aimed at his own player ?". The manager slammed the door and went back to his team.
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Outside the context of the thread, the manager should have been dismissed unless you invited him into the change room.

Good example here. The point on intent has to be clarified. The offence is not determined based on if the potential offender intended to distract an opponent, though you may consider it as a factor. It is determined based on if the opponent is actually, dare I say genuinely distracted or not, even if not intended by the offender. Another good example to illustrate this point is post #4. Even though distracting an opponent was not intended, as @Kes rightly pointed out, it is still an offence.

Personally, on post #4, if the distraction does not have any material/significant impact, I tend to ignore it. I know it is technically incorrect but this is what I mean by considering intent as a factor. When I would not ignore a verbal distraction, even when not intended, is when it denies attackers a promising attack or GSO, or denies defender defending it.
 
one said:
Outside the context of the thread, the manager should have been dismissed unless you invited him into the change room.

Good example here. The point on intent has to be clarified. The offence is not determined based on if the potential offender intended to distract an opponent, though you may consider it as a factor. It is determined based on if the opponent is actually, dare I say genuinely distracted or not, even if not intended by the offender. Another good example to illustrate this point is post #4. Even though distracting an opponent was not intended, as @Kes rightly pointed out, it is still an offence.

Personally, on post #4, if the distraction does not have any material/significant impact, I tend to ignore it. I know it is technically incorrect but this is what I mean by considering intent as a factor. When I would not ignore a verbal distraction, even when not intended, is when it denies attackers a promising attack or GSO, or denies defender defending it.
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Dismiss the manager ? I was too busy laughing at him with the 4th Official and AR's lol
 
one said:
Outside the context of the thread, the manager should have been dismissed unless you invited him into the change room.
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Unless I'm mistaken, you wouldn't be able to send him off as it's not on the FOP.

Would have to go in a report instead.
 
Josh the referee said:
Unless I'm mistaken, you wouldn't be able to send him off as it's not on the FOP.

Would have to go in a report instead.
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You can send off at half time.
Law states:
The referee has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including kicks from the penalty mark)
As an example, if there is violent conduct after players leave the f. o. p. at half time or O/I/A language, send off.
The club officials may not enter the referee's dressing room unless invited.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
You can send off at half time.
Law states:
The referee has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including kicks from the penalty mark)
As an example, if there is violent conduct after players leave the f. o. p. at half time or O/I/A language, send off.
The club officials may not enter the referee's dressing room unless invited.
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Oh, read it wrong then. Thought it had to be  on the FOP.

Thanks for clearing it up.
 
BCMilan said:
Long story. Bare with me. I reffed a cup final a few years ago and in the first 10 mins a striker was standing in an offside position (by absolutely miles). The ball was knocked over the defence. The Right Back of the attacking team (who had lightening pace) made a brilliant run from deep past all the midfield and the strikers. He screamed "leave it" to the striker standing offside, who promptly put his arms in the air to signal he was going nowhere near it. The RB burst through, collected the ball, rounded the keeper and scored. The defensive team went berserk. "he can't say LEAVE IT". I gave myself a few seconds and promptly awarded the goal. It was clear who the RB was shouting to. I didn't think he deliberately said it to put any of the defenders off.
Anyway, at Half Time, the losing manger stormed into the refs changing room (they were 3-0 down by this stage). "HE CAN'T SAY LEAVE IT ON A FOOTBALL FIELD, REF", he shouted at me. I was sure I was right, but you start to doubt yourself. Then, one of the my AR's (an elderly ref) reached into his kitbag and pulled out a copy of the LOTG. The AR said "Fella, show me in there where it says that the lad can't say leave it, if it's clearly aimed at his own player ?". The manager slammed the door and went back to his team.
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I've used a similar line before, referring people to LOTG and telling them to look f#or the words "Leave it" - I assure them they won't find them!

There's loads "High foot", "Studs up", "Foul throw", "Obstruction"
 
I don’t see 4 as clear cut as some other do. It is, if course, either a caution or nothing. The ultimate question is whether it was unsporting behavior. i think that takes more context than just an opposing player being distracted. If I see this as clearly directed at a teammate and a reasonable instruction to a teammate, I don’t think it warrants a a caution, even if an opponent “intercepts” the instruction and acts on it. YHTBT.
 
socal lurker said:
I don’t see 4 as clear cut as some other do. It is, if course, either a caution or nothing. The ultimate question is whether it was unsporting behavior. i think that takes more context than just an opposing player being distracted. If I see this as clearly directed at a teammate and a reasonable instruction to a teammate, I don’t think it warrants a a caution, even if an opponent “intercepts” the instruction and acts on it. YHTBT.
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I think the ultimate question is more specific. Did it "verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart"? The law is clear if it did, it MUST be unsporting behaviour. And the description is fairly clear that it did because Clive the opponent "pulled out of the challenge".

I do see where you are coming from (I think). Will this be a fair caution? Hence my post on I am willing to ignore it (well not entirely, but a quiet chat on the run to the offender) if the distraction did not have material/significant impact.
 
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The only time I’ve had anything like this that I have penalised is a game last season (which was abandoned later in the game…)

Penalty given - easy pen. As player is about to take pen, a defender makes the ‘ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh’ noise as he is about to start run up.

Blow whistle quickly and caution for USB. I’ll only penalise for that sort of thing if I’m 100% sure they are being a prat and trying to be a d**k.
 
SurreyWolves said:
The only time I’ve had anything like this that I have penalised is a game last season (which was abandoned later in the game…)

Penalty given - easy pen. As player is about to take pen, a defender makes the ‘ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh’ noise as he is about to start run up.

Blow whistle quickly and caution for USB. I’ll only penalise for that sort of thing if I’m 100% sure they are being a prat and trying to be a d**k.
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In law you're supposed to let them complete the penalty and then allow a retake if they miss.
 
bester said:
In law you're supposed to let them complete the penalty and then allow a retake if they miss.
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They started doing it pre to the pen run up being done - so decided to nip it in the bud before it was taken.

Didn’t make much difference to the game as their behaviour was unfortunately very poor!
 
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