About Time
- Thread starter Steve Wiggins
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Yampy
RefChat Addict
Interesting that Norway is toughing its stance on homophobia and I wonder if such thinking maybe applied here in one of the home countries. Personally, I haven't held any such remarks during any of my games but I've no doubt it happens the same as other forms of abuse. I'd feel much better brandishing a red card knowing that there's a precedent set somewhere to back me up.
From the remarks of the player after the game, I'd say there's still a long way to go in their understanding of the issue, too.
From the remarks of the player after the game, I'd say there's still a long way to go in their understanding of the issue, too.
I had one this year on a sunday morning where a player called another player a 'F'ing Faggot' when I pulled him over and explained to him why he he was being sent off he did not take it well and neither did his manager. At half time I explained to him, his manager and his girlfriend who came storming on why it was offensive and why he was sent off he then accepted it along with his manager but his girlfriend was kicking off about it. 'Don't send it in he's just come back from a 6 game ban!'. To be fair to the player and manager they emailed me after to apologise for initial reaction and the player for using it and said he did not realise what he said could offend.
The problem is within our culture, I work at a college where students constantly remark that's so gay when they think its bad or boring etc, they also use the phrase don't be a fag etc along with you throw like a girl etc so much inequality and when you challenge it they still don't realise as they get caught doing it the next day!
The problem is within our culture, I work at a college where students constantly remark that's so gay when they think its bad or boring etc, they also use the phrase don't be a fag etc along with you throw like a girl etc so much inequality and when you challenge it they still don't realise as they get caught doing it the next day!
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I was playing in a game, rather than reffing, the other day. An opposition player got sent off for a second yellow (after trying to hack me down no less, but I digress...). He managed to get in the full trifecta of offensive language offences to the ref: racist, misogynist and homophobic, Strictly speaking the homophobic insult was actually to the referee on the next field. The guy got a one game ban. The ref was rattled and forgot to show the red after the second yellow. My guess is that he didn't put any of it in his report as this stuff is quite common.
My point is that, in the UEFA guidelines on racism, there is the suggestion to national authorities of a mandatory 12 match ban for racism. The guys and girls in my leagues only play 15-24 league matches a season. Even a mandatory 6 games for racism, homophobia or misogynist comments - if it was well publicised - would stop a lot of the insults and really clean things up.
Unless the authorities bring in much tougher minimum punishments then the abuse will go on.
My point is that, in the UEFA guidelines on racism, there is the suggestion to national authorities of a mandatory 12 match ban for racism. The guys and girls in my leagues only play 15-24 league matches a season. Even a mandatory 6 games for racism, homophobia or misogynist comments - if it was well publicised - would stop a lot of the insults and really clean things up.
Unless the authorities bring in much tougher minimum punishments then the abuse will go on.
The guy in my game got a 5 game ban and has to attend a education workshop which for me is the key to eradicate it.
I'm interested in hearing what fellow referee's experiences are of such language. I am not naive, I know it happens and any occurence of this nature is unacceptable and needs to be met with stiff sanctions from referees and authorities. However, in 12 years of refereeing youth, amateur and semi professional football I have never (honestly) had to deal with the use of racist, sexist of homophobic language. I've dealt with plenty OFFINABUS but is has been just that ~ offensive, insulting or abusive. It's almost as if racist, sexist and homophobic language is a "no go" area for a lot of players and teams. Maybe I'm living in some strange cocooned world. What is your experience?
In my playing experience I have come across racist, homophobic and religious discrimination, I played for and now sit on the committee of a church team playing in a league with no other church teams in the past the reply we got from our league about referees turning a blind eye to discrimination was what do you expect your a christian team playing in an adult league! Our reply was would you say that to someone who has been racially abused and their reply was that's different! I can't believe these people are allowed to run leagues with these attitudes county fa did nothing about it at the time too. In my refereeing career last 2 years I have come across homophobic insults, sexism and a bucket load of offinabus with some of that coming from referees too! I sometimes wonder if rugby refereeing is for me rather than Football due to the views of officials within my local area and also the players.
I have sent one player off this season for calling another a "pikey" and another for calling an opponent a "faggot". I know that both these words would not be considered sufficient for OFFINABUS by some refs but if I have to make a one man stand I am willing to.
Generally I am against specifying that certain words should automatically result in a red and have quite a high tolerance level for swearing but it would probably be helpful for some racist and homophobic words to be outlawed as it would mean that no-one could claim that "it's just banter". For example I find the use of the word "gay" difficult as for some players, particularly younger ones, it has come to mean just "a bit useless" but it can also be used as a homophobic insult. If it was stipulated that its use was forbidden and would result in a red card perhaps some grey areas could be removed. The same could be true of the N word. We have had the discussion here about black players using it between themselves and the issues this raises. If it was explicitly banned there would again be no room for doubt.
Not actually 100% sure about this but I certainly think that it would help to have more consistency among referees concerning bigoted language.
Generally I am against specifying that certain words should automatically result in a red and have quite a high tolerance level for swearing but it would probably be helpful for some racist and homophobic words to be outlawed as it would mean that no-one could claim that "it's just banter". For example I find the use of the word "gay" difficult as for some players, particularly younger ones, it has come to mean just "a bit useless" but it can also be used as a homophobic insult. If it was stipulated that its use was forbidden and would result in a red card perhaps some grey areas could be removed. The same could be true of the N word. We have had the discussion here about black players using it between themselves and the issues this raises. If it was explicitly banned there would again be no room for doubt.
Not actually 100% sure about this but I certainly think that it would help to have more consistency among referees concerning bigoted language.
one
RefChat Addict
This is a bit of digression from homophobic remarks but related. I think the wording of the law "offensive, insulting or abusive" is very clever and it should just be that.
Players can use the exact same words which could not only have different meaning in different areas/countries but also have different meaning on how(tone...) they are used and the context they are used in. Its up to the referee to workout how to deal with it and hopefully that is consistent at least within the league.
For example the words 'F*#k off' can be dealt with (and I have) in all the following ways: ignore it. have a quite word on the run, give public warning, caution and send off.
Players can use the exact same words which could not only have different meaning in different areas/countries but also have different meaning on how(tone...) they are used and the context they are used in. Its up to the referee to workout how to deal with it and hopefully that is consistent at least within the league.
For example the words 'F*#k off' can be dealt with (and I have) in all the following ways: ignore it. have a quite word on the run, give public warning, caution and send off.
Monotone Whistle
Well-Known Member
For me, people in any situation can show their anger towards another person (not the ref of course) without adding insults or personal jibes. So, on the FOP the use of "F*ck Off!" is perfectly adequate, but adding something referring to someone's skin colour, sexuality, appearance, etc. takes it into the realms of OFFINABUS.
Therefore, if I hear it, they will be walking. It doesn't matter if I personally find it offensive, etc., by personalising the sentence either the recipient, a teammate or spectator may be affected and we cannot be last week's ref on these sorts of things.
Therefore, if I hear it, they will be walking. It doesn't matter if I personally find it offensive, etc., by personalising the sentence either the recipient, a teammate or spectator may be affected and we cannot be last week's ref on these sorts of things.
I've taken it up Steve, the difference is clear. For example I got an email a few weeks ago about the disciplinary hearings in Yorkshire. Every red card gets its own hearing. In 1 month there were 11 red cards across the whole of Yorkshire. They send out a list with the outcomes of the hearings and this is how it went:
Dangerous Tackle. 2 Week Ban
Punch. 6 Weeks
Dangerous Tackle. 3 Weeks
Punch. 2 Weeks
Punch. 2 Weeks
Punch. 1 Week
Punch. 2 Weeks
Stamp. 5 Weeks
1 Suspended until he appears
Verbal Abuse towards a match official. 10 Week Ban!!
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Respect to Yorkshire, McTavish and others.
I sent one guy off for calling another player a monkey - it is a racist insult in the local language. Both teams were mixed with Northern Europeans, South Americans and Africans. "But but but there are African guys on my team". I explained calmly to the player and his captain that that made the remark even more shameful and he should consider apologising to his teammates and writing to the opposition and the league. He understood. No panic. A few seconds and we are on with the game. Still only a 2 match ban. He was remorseful. Am I harsh for thinking that tis is still too light? I think that I am ending up taking responsibility for educating the player when it should be the league. I like the idea of ban plus workshop. I will recommend that here.
I sent one guy off for calling another player a monkey - it is a racist insult in the local language. Both teams were mixed with Northern Europeans, South Americans and Africans. "But but but there are African guys on my team". I explained calmly to the player and his captain that that made the remark even more shameful and he should consider apologising to his teammates and writing to the opposition and the league. He understood. No panic. A few seconds and we are on with the game. Still only a 2 match ban. He was remorseful. Am I harsh for thinking that tis is still too light? I think that I am ending up taking responsibility for educating the player when it should be the league. I like the idea of ban plus workshop. I will recommend that here.
The Bstard
Active Member
I've said on here before that I've sent a player off for calling another a f*ggot. To me, it is hate speech, just as n*gger is hate speech. It is a word used derogatorily regarding someone's sexuality, the same as reference to their skin colour, ethnicity or gender.
I had the pleasure of running the line for a female referee recently who, at the toss, after the usual formalities said 'any offensive reference to my gender will result in a red card.' I had a chat with her afterwards and she said it was because she was called a 'cow' a few times during games, and an assessor had taken issue with her sending someone off for it - but it stops the whinging that she is a woman in a man's game etc etc etc
I had the pleasure of running the line for a female referee recently who, at the toss, after the usual formalities said 'any offensive reference to my gender will result in a red card.' I had a chat with her afterwards and she said it was because she was called a 'cow' a few times during games, and an assessor had taken issue with her sending someone off for it - but it stops the whinging that she is a woman in a man's game etc etc etc
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I concur. We have a lot of teams in lower divisions who seemingly come to games hoping to get angry and mouth off. Lone refs with no assistants are especially vulnerable I find. In the lower divs I remind the captains "no bad language to each other, to me, or to my imaginary assistants" and the captains always look to the pitch edge. Seems to help a little.