Chelsea v Arsenal

[Ryanj91]

Few things that I am a bit surprised about from this game:

1) Tiago's challenge - ran from distance and 1 almost 2 footed lunge in on Martinelli. Xhaka v City and he got sent off for an identical tackle.

2) Cucurella, getting a yellow for his persistent fouling. But runs to the lino and shouts in his face for a good 5 seconds then shouts at the ref for ages... Where is the stance of stopping that and issuing yellow for dissent? That was well over the top.

3) Webb did a whole take on the United v Wolves penalty miss... How is the Sanchez v Jesus any different?

VAR did work well for the Palmer tackle and the penalty. Just need consistency.

 

[DJIC]

I don’t support either side, but I think Chelsea penalty for hand ball shouldn’t be given, players have to jump with their arms as leverage. Support for this point of view is the Chelsea striker uses exactly the same arm movement to head the ball. Plus proximity should be play on, imho. Not the best quality of photo but you get the idea!

 

[RustyRef]

I don’t support either side, but I think Chelsea penalty for hand ball shouldn’t be given, players have to jump with their arms as leverage. Support for this point of view is the Chelsea striker uses exactly the same arm movement to head the ball. Plus proximity should be play on, imho. Not the best quality of photo but you get the idea!

View attachment 6919

Yes, but it didn't hit the Chelsea player's arm, and therefore where they are is totally irrelevant.

It looks like they are trying to get a level of consistency and if the ball is out from the body it will be penalised, my gut feeling is that will have come in from discussions with clubs. Not strictly what the law says, but it feels "right" to me if it leads to consistency as opposed to the seemingly random interpretations before.

 

[RustyRef]

1) Tiago's challenge - ran from distance and 1 almost 2 footed lunge in on Martinelli. Xhaka v City and he got sent off for an identical tackle.

He certainly came in at speed, but he was low and actually played the ball with the top of his foot. Can't really remember the Xhaka one but I'm sure there was far more contact on the opponent.

2) Cucurella, getting a yellow for his persistent fouling. But runs to the lino and shouts in his face for a good 5 seconds then shouts at the ref for ages... Where is the stance of stopping that and issuing yellow for dissent? That was well over the top.

I got the impression he was pleading rather than shouting or screaming, certainly taking a risk though. Although I wasn't sure if the caution was for the challenge or the dissent.

3) Webb did a whole take on the United v Wolves penalty miss... How is the Sanchez v Jesus any different?

Guessing the difference is he clattered him with his body, as opposed to punching the opponent in the head like Onana did. I was still very surprised VAR didn't get involved though as he was absolutely nowhere near the ball and hit Jesus (and his own player) with a lot of force.

 

[DJIC]

Yes, but it didn't hit the Chelsea player's arm, and therefore where they are is totally irrelevant.

It looks like they are trying to get a level of consistency and if the ball is out from the body it will be penalised, my gut feeling is that will have come in from discussions with clubs. Not strictly what the law says, but it feels "right" to me if it leads to consistency as opposed to the seemingly random interpretations before.

Consistency is fine, my reference to the Chelsea player’s arm is only to prove that the arm is in a natural position as they both jumped the same way.

I’m not giving this at grass roots level is anyone else taking an PGMOL stance In their matches?

 

[Ryanj91]

He certainly came in at speed, but he was low and actually played the ball with the top of his foot. Can't really remember the Xhaka one but I'm sure there was far more contact on the opponent.

I got the impression he was pleading rather than shouting or screaming, certainly taking a risk though. Although I wasn't sure if the caution was for the challenge or the dissent.

Guessing the difference is he clattered him with his body, as opposed to punching the opponent in the head like Onana did. I was still very surprised VAR didn't get involved though as he was absolutely nowhere near the ball and hit Jesus (and his own player) with a lot of force.

Rather than punching his head, he had clattered his head which is just as a foul. If a defender did that, it's a penalty. I still do not understand the protection keepers get.

Cucurella got the caution for the fouls as you can see the ref making the hand gestures to previous fouls. If pleading, you don't run 10 yards to a lino and get that close to a Lino's personal space. On a side note - In the rugby yesterday, England's captain hardly complained and SA got a penalty (because of the dissent) and essentially won the game from there!

Handball - by the laws it's a penalty, but I think everyone doesn't expect it to be a penalty. Both making the same jump for the ball. It's come about 1 meter , if that. Neville saying the rules should be adapted (for the millionth time) and siding with Saliba was refreshing. Think back to the United spurs game. They cited proximity for that not to be given, but that traveled a fair distance.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Handball - by the laws it's a penalty, but I think everyone doesn't expect it to be a penalty. Both making the same jump for the ball. It's come about 1 meter , if that. Neville saying the rules should be adapted (for the millionth time) and siding with Saliba was refreshing. Think back to the United spurs game. They cited proximity for that not to be given, but that traveled a fair distance.

Pundits, players, managers & fans; they all say things should be adapted or have ‘more consistency’ but they never actually come up with any viable solutions. Distance/proximity does come in to a certain extent, but what is too close and what is a big enough distance for handball?

Other than saying any contact with the arm or hand is handball (which very few of us want) there will never be consistency. They could adapt it and people would still moan. The BT commentators constantly moaned about the Young sending off yesterday, despite agreeing that both offences were a yellow card. They will moan regardless, so I’d take any suggestions to changes they have with a large pinch of salt

 

[RustyRef]

Pundits, players, managers & fans; they all say things should be adapted or have ‘more consistency’ but they never actually come up with any viable solutions. Distance/proximity does come in to a certain extent, but what is too close and what is a big enough distance for handball?

Other than saying any contact with the arm or hand is handball (which very few of us want) there will never be consistency. They could adapt it and people would still moan. The BT commentators constantly moaned about the Young sending off yesterday, despite agreeing that both offences were a yellow card. They will moan regardless, so I’d take any suggestions to changes they have with a large pinch of salt

What I found interesting this weekend is most pundits agreed with the handball penalties. A few exceptions, but they seem to have come round to the view that if your arm is out from your body it will be penalised. I was listening to talkSPORT earlier with Sam Matterface, Alex Crook and Perry Groves, who I think are all very knowledgeable and sensible people, and the only complaints they had was that the referees relied on VAR and should have made the decisions real time as they were obvious handballs. Don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint as they weren't easy to see real time, but it does show that there is a growing acceptance on handling when the ball is out from the body.

There also seems to have been a shift on keeping 11 players on the pitch. Previously there would have been uproar at Young's second caution for "ruining the game", but this time most pundits agreed with it, and then demanded that a second player should have been sent off for a second caution. It seems to have gone full circle.

 

[Big Cat]

but it feels "right" to me if it leads to consistency as opposed to the seemingly random interpretations before.

But it feels wrong to me if it consistently leads to the wrong outcome

No doubt.... HB is easier to Referee right now... The consistent way in which it's refereed in the EPL means we just give HB near enough every time the ball hits the hand and the hand is elevated to any extent. But that's not what the Law seemingly intended and has absolutely nothing to do with natural position 90% of the time. So I don't think it's good for the game and causes many games to be won & lost on a stroke of luck
We all want consistency, but not consistently bad

FWIW, another failure of VAR to ignore a GK absolutely clattering an opponent. With the benefit of replay, it's ridiculous this wasn't penalised