A&H

Club marks centrally held?

DaveMac

DaveMac

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
A bit of a long shot, and I've got no real reason for wanting these other than curiosity. But are our club marks given held centrally anywhere? I'd be interested to know mine, but dont fancy getting in touch with all the different leagues I've worked with to ask for them, when I dont really have any reason for needing them!
 
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I reckon it's all the leagues that have them separately tbh! I find I'm curious too - I don't want to look and find my average is -2/100 though! :p
 
Leagues maintain records of the marks awarded and they are submitted periodically to the County FA. This helps them assess who to appoint to the latter stages of County competitions.
 
Brian saves the day with his (almost) infinite wisdom! :D I think its a crap system tbh! The referees who aren't afraid to apply the laws of the game get given a lowly rating whereas the referees who do nothing all game get the high club marks because the clubs (on the whole) fail to mark referees appropriately. Although that could just be me having an active dislike to the majority of clubs...
 
Easy enough to work out if you have kept a record of your games....

Teams that won will have marked you 75+
Teams that lost will have marked you 60-65
Teams where you've sent a player off will have marked you 51 or 61 depending where the cut off is for having to write their reasons.

Youth games will have marked you 90 regardless of result unless you really really upset them then it will be 51 or 61 as above.
 
Padfoot said:
Easy enough to work out if you have kept a record of your games....

Teams that won will have marked you 75+
Teams that lost will have marked you 60-65
Teams where you've sent a player off will have marked you 51 or 61 depending where the cut off is for having to write their reasons.

Youth games will have marked you 90 regardless of result unless you really really upset them then it will be 51 or 61 as above.
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That's a pretty accurate summary AFAIK.
Most teams in the lower echelons are part-time and are run in the manager's spare time. When it comes to paperwork, I find the majority are "lazy" and will complete the minimum requirement therefore, hardly any will want to have to spend their free time writing a report on your inadequacies. If they do write one and send it, you've had a bad 'un but you'll know that anyway from your own self-evaluation.
 
David Sutton said:
That's a pretty accurate summary AFAIK.
Most teams in the lower echelons are part-time and are run in the manager's spare time. When it comes to paperwork, I find the majority are "lazy" and will complete the minimum requirement therefore, hardly any will want to have to spend their free time writing a report on your inadequacies. If they do write one and send it, you've had a bad 'un but you'll know that anyway from your own self-evaluation.
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My youth League give us our average mark at the end of each season and also the average mark for all referees in the league.
 
PinnerPaul said:
My youth League give us our average mark at the end of each season and also the average mark for all referees in the league.
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Averages say nothing unless you've done 25 or more games. I collate marks for 4 local competitions and I see how 1 bad mark can drag averages down. Only takes 1 team to mark you 10/100 and send in a "he gave us nothing" supporting report to see your average tumble
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Averages say nothing unless you've done 25 or more games. I collate marks for 4 local competitions and I see how 1 bad mark can drag averages down. Only takes 1 team to mark you 10/100 and send in a "he gave us nothing" supporting report to see your average tumble
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You make a good point, Brian. Statistically, 25 is a small sample size and any average will be effected by a low or high score. Do you know if the FA/CFA uses other statistical analysis to assess a referee's progress?
 
Fair point on the individual averages but as there are up to 150 games EACH WEEK on this league, the overall referee average mark should be a good indicator.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Fair point on the individual averages but as there are up to 150 games EACH WEEK on this league, the overall referee average mark should be a good indicator.
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Maybe provide a stat (I'll call it A/E) which is the Actual Referee average / Expected Average (League average). Any A/E greater than 1 shows a referee performing better than average and the higher the figure the better the ref?
But it still doesn't accommodate the small sample size of matches a ref can achieve in a season. A 2 year rolling mark, perhaps?
 
David Sutton said:
Maybe provide a stat (I'll call it A/E) which is the Actual Referee average / Expected Average (League average). Any A/E greater than 1 shows a referee performing better than average and the higher the figure the better the ref?
But it still doesn't accommodate the small sample size of matches a ref can achieve in a season. A 2 year rolling mark, perhaps?
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Simple solution

Do an average and then do another one but with the outer (top and bottom) 10% of marks removed

This way it eliminates the anomolies
 
PinnerPaul said:
Fair point on the individual averages but as there are up to 150 games EACH WEEK on this league, the overall referee average mark should be a good indicator.
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Not necessarily as referees in junior leagues, in my experience, tend to work within certain age groups. There is also the consideration that referees in junior leagues, in my experience, tend to work with certain clubs. Finally, I suspect that a large proportion of the referees in a league featuring 150 games may be youth referees who rely on parents/public transport which limits their geographical coverage.

All of these factors considered, there are reasons why you would see a distortion for a particular referee
 
David Sutton said:
You make a good point, Brian. Statistically, 25 is a small sample size and any average will be effected by a low or high score. Do you know if the FA/CFA uses other statistical analysis to assess a referee's progress?
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Number of games and availability. From Supply League upwards there is an increased chance of a referee being assessed by a relatively competent assessor which provides a data stream.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Not necessarily as referees in junior leagues, in my experience, tend to work within certain age groups. There is also the consideration that referees in junior leagues, in my experience, tend to work with certain clubs. Finally, I suspect that a large proportion of the referees in a league featuring 150 games may be youth referees who rely on parents/public transport which limits their geographical coverage.

All of these factors considered, there are reasons why you would see a distortion for a particular referee
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I agree Brian, think that's what I said. I would argue though that the overall average for all referees should be pretty accurate given the large number of games over a season.
 
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