A&H

Didn't even see it

R

Ref HJ

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Right basically I've just started adult football and it was my second game, it had been all pushes and shoves in the back all game between whites and reds, fair to say the whites felt I was unconsistent in the decisions I made all game and they were seriously getting on my back.

The second half is calm as I pulled myself together but the scores 6-1 to reds with 10 mins left when a player from the whites put in a fair tackle on the red and slightly caught his ankle. BUT as I turned my back to follow the play I hear a loud thud with all spectators on the line gasp in disbelief, I turn around to see a red player standing over the player who just caught his ankle and then walk of with face like thunder.

I knew he had just kicked out commiting violent conduct but I hadn't physically seen it, but if I didn't send him off I would of been a dead man as I'm the only one who NEVER saw it. I sent the player off to which he admitted he kicked out at the end of the game when I had a chat with him but he knew I never saw it so that's why he done it.... Was it the right decision for issuing a red for something I never saw but knew had happened?
 
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It's gonna be a tricky one to report, especially if he had kept his mouth shut.

"It was in the 80th minute when a great tackle came in from white, as I turned away from the tackle area to follow play I heard a thud followed by a loud gasp from all the spectators so I sent off the red player for VC" ;)

It will be tough to sell, at the time you practically did the right thing IMO because if you hadn't sent him off there probably would've been a riot. But in law you are wrong because you can only punish something that you have seen or have been notified of by your AR. In this situation you would have to play it smart, call the red player over and ask him something like "what was all that about?" And hope that he admits to it or "incriminates" himself :)
 
He admitted he kicked the player after the game claiming "he just saw red and kicked him" so I was like thank you very much for admitting that
 
Ref HJ said:
He admitted he kicked the player after the game claiming "he just saw red and kicked him" so I was like thank you very much for admitting that
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I see what you mean but imagine if he hadn't said this, then what position would you be in?
 
HullRef said:
I see what you mean but imagine if he hadn't said this, then what position would you be in?
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True, but my dad always comes to my games and always asks me why he can't run the line as he would be neutral but he's 60 and wouldn't handle to keep up with play and he said in the car it was 100% a red, oh well, it's happened now and that game was definitely a learning curve as to always keeping my eye on everything and not just following the ball
 
DanCohen17 said:
"In the XX minute of the above match, I dismissed the above named player for Violent Conduct after he kicked the opposing player.

I took his name, showed him the red card and dismissed him from FOP."

Done. No lies, no incrimination and I guarantee no appeal!
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That's exactly what my report said so Ima just say I done a good job;);)
 
Did you not have an AR to consult? Surely 1 of the 2 would have seen it? I appreciate one of them might have been his team member (and im yet to have an AR honestly incriminate one of this own team).

Could have blagged it though too - walked and spoke to an AR, turn around and issue the red like he's just confirmed it. Then they'd be no complaints from players, because he knows(/thinks) he's been seen.

They wouldnt find out the truth until the pub when they ask their lino what he said to the ref and he'll say "I said I didnt see anything?!"

Tough one though, I think you done the right thing, would have been savage challenges and vendetta fouls for the rest of the game.
 
Don't think you can use CAR evidence in any appeal process, as you say, they are not neutral and very likely not qualified.
 
Silhouette said:
Could have blagged it though too - walked and spoke to an AR, turn around and issue the red like he's just confirmed it. Then they'd be no complaints from players, because he knows(/thinks) he's been seen.

They wouldnt find out the truth until the pub when they ask their lino what he said to the ref and he'll say "I said I didnt see anything?!"
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Are you kidding me? If I speak to the lineo and he says he saw nothing then I whip out th red card do you honestly think firstly that player isn't going to ask the lineo why he's grassed him up. Or that the lineo won't pipe up and say he saw nothing?
 
If I was operating without assistants or where I had CAR's then I wouldn't send a player off for something I didn't see - When I was a level 7 I had an incident where 2 players had challenged for the ball, ball got cleared up field, I followed play & a few seconds later I heard a commotion & one player was down on the floor holding his face & his team mates were confronting the opposing player & the handful of home species & manager were up in arms. The injured player had a mark on his face like he'd been punched, the home team players said there'd been a punch as did the home manager & spectators. The manager/physio was livid but I took him & the home captain to one side & said despite what I felt it looked like had happened I hadn't seen it due to how play had developed and as I hadn't seen it I couldn't take any action.
They weren't happy coz "it was obvious what's happened" but when I went on to explain that if they wanted me to start giving decisions over what I thought might have happened then I'd be blowing up every time someone appealed for something, they saw my side of it & accepted the decision with no further query. I did include a description of my view of the incident in my match report to the league though.
It did teach me a valuable lesson in adopting the "trailing eye" technique when you think something may be brewing
 
A trailing eye is the hardest thing I find with refereeing @Bongsmon but was also told the ball won't foul anyone so you don't want to focus your attention on that. Alas sometimes things happen well out of our sight, this is where us referees need to evolve and grow a pair of eyes in the back of our head!
 
I agree, with this particular incident I mentioned, it was one of those where I knew both players were riled from the original challenge & maybe should have kept glancing back to keep an eye on it as it developed rather than turning my back on it completely & legging it upfield. Like you say though it's hard as I used something similar once when there was an appeal for a throw in & as I glanced back at my assistant to see if he was signalling (he wasn't) heard a clunk, a very loud appeal & glanced back round to see one player spread-eagled on the floor, another on the deck looking a bit sheepish & the ball rolling off down the pitch. As I hadn't seen it, my assistant hadn't seen it coz he was looking at me I couldn't give anything - although that incident taught me that if play is developing as it was, delay looking for a signal for a throw coz you can miss something more important than a middle of the pitch throw in.
I find off the ball incidents like the one I first described or the ones where there is some needle after a challenge but play is developing are far easier to manage with neutral assistants who you can give a quick signal & shout to keep an eye on it
 
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