Dissent from Managers and supporters from Grass Root footbal

[myrakheti]

I have been a referee L5 for over 30 years. The one thing that concerns me to attract younger referees in Grass Root footbal is the attitude and decent from managers particularly and local supporters.
I find that referees are encourage to control, manage themselves and the abuse, even though at times with torrid verbal abuse.
It's easy to say they should put in a formal report, however, my question is, "Why do someone think this is ok orwhat gives them right to speak to some in such away.
So directly to those disrespecting managers and supporters. "Why do you think. It's ok to give torrid verbal abuse to a referee".

 

[Kent Ref]

I would suggest that a lot of refs don't use WGS to report the behaviour.

So a manager receiving no consequence believes they can have a "free for all" each game.

 

[myrakheti]

Cheers Ken
I was just trying to understand why they think they can use such verbal torrent abuse and it's ok.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Cheers Ken
I was just trying to understand why they think they can use such verbal torrent abuse and it's ok.

Because they can. Too many referees choose not to deal with it, too intimidated to or deal with it on the day and then don't report.

They see it on the TV and assume that it's acceptable.

 

[Runner-Ref]

John Brooks failing to caution Young for dissent in Eve vs Utd is a prime example of why grassroots think they can get away with it

 

[SammyT5]

I would suggest that a lot of refs don't use WGS to report the behaviour.

So a manager receiving no consequence believes they can have a "free for all" each game.

There’s definitely something in this. I reffed an U15 game today. Gave out five yellow cards across the board - was told after the game that it was the first time in three years one of the teams had a player booked. They were one of the most difficult teams I’ve refereed all season. The manager possibly was exaggerating, however if true it suggests that a high proportion of grassroots referees don’t even use cards, particularly in youth football.

 

[socal lurker]

IMO, this is an area where experienced refs often do newbies a disservice. “I can handle the abuse,“ is a horrible excuse for not dealing with it. Every time we properly address coach misconduct, we make it easier for the next ref.

 

[ladbroke8745]

There’s definitely something in this. I reffed an U15 game today. Gave out five yellow cards across the board - was told after the game that it was the first time in three years one of the teams had a player booked. They were one of the most difficult teams I’ve refereed all season. The manager possibly was exaggerating, however if true it suggests that a high proportion of grassroots referees don’t even use cards, particularly in youth football.

I love a card. My card count for this season, in the 8 games I have done in both OA and youth stands are 41 yellows and 5 red.
I did learn a long time ago to not have much sympathy for players. One game had 7 yellows and 2 reds (3 including the coach)..
Todays game was a blip for me, I should have given a player his marching orders with a straight red card, but he was quickly dismissed minutes later anyway for a foul (second yellow).

 

[RustyRef]

John Brooks failing to caution Young for dissent in Eve vs Utd is a prime example of why grassroots think they can get away with it

But equally any grassroots participant watching Forest vs Brighton yesterday would have been sent the opposite message. I've said this before, but as someone who played, coached and managed for a long time I made it my purpose to know all of the referees and their traits. You knew the ones that would let everything go, and the ones that would get a card out if you said so much as boo. For the latter category I made it very clear to the players that anyone even beginning at argue with the referee would be at risk of immediate substitution, and that would be a guarantee not a risk if they were cautioned for dissent.

As a referee I have for less tolerance for coaching staff than I do players. The first time anyone goes OTT on the touch lines they get a very clear warning that their behaviour is unacceptable and if it happens again there will be disciplinary action, and I then always follow it through if they transgress again. There are numerous occasions where I've removed a manager or coach and the player behaviour has immediately improved afterwards. Every referee has the tools in their pocket to deal with coaches and managers misbehaving, my advice would be to use them assuming an initial warning doesn't work. If you don't they will just continue to chip away at your authority and that will spread to the players.

 

[Runner-Ref]

But equally any grassroots participant watching Forest vs Brighton yesterday would have been sent the opposite message. I've said this before, but as someone who played, coached and managed for a long time I made it my purpose to know all of the referees and their traits. You knew the ones that would let everything go, and the ones that would get a card out if you said so much as boo. For the latter category I made it very clear to the players that anyone even beginning at argue with the referee would be at risk of immediate substitution, and that would be a guarantee not a risk if they were cautioned for dissent.

As a referee I have for less tolerance for coaching staff than I do players. The first time anyone goes OTT on the touch lines they get a very clear warning that their behaviour is unacceptable and if it happens again there will be disciplinary action, and I then always follow it through if they transgress again. There are numerous occasions where I've removed a manager or coach and the player behaviour has immediately improved afterwards. Every referee has the tools in their pocket to deal with coaches and managers misbehaving, my advice would be to use them assuming an initial warning doesn't work. If you don't they will just continue to chip away at your authority and that will spread to the players.

But that one an absolute 1 off in 11 years. Dunk and the Brighton players reactions proved how much of a rarity it is. They need to adopt this approach an awful lot more consistently. But unfortunately, Brooks failed to do this today.

 

[RustyRef]

But that one an absolute 1 off in 11 years. Dunk and the Brighton players reactions proved how much of a rarity it is. They need to adopt this approach an awful lot more consistently. But unfortunately, Brooks failed to do this today.

That one was a bit different as it was seemingly DOGSO. What isn't open to any debate though is there have been way more cautions for dissent this season than ever before. At the end match week 12 before the international break, so less than a third of the way through the season, there have been 88 dissent cautions, that's more than the whole of last season (87). I've also seen and heard it suggested that it is only the top two referees giving them out as they are safe from criticism, but the facts don't back that up as Peter Bankes has 11 of them, and the next two on the list are Rob Jones (8) and Stuart Attwell (7).

On top of that we have already seen several managers serve suspensions due to picking up 3 cautions

 

[Runner-Ref]

That one was a bit different as it was seemingly DOGSO. What isn't open to any debate though is there have been way more cautions for dissent this season than ever before. At the end match week 12 before the international break, so less than a third of the way through the season, there have been 88 dissent cautions, that's more than the whole of last season (87). I've also seen and heard it suggested that it is only the top two referees giving them out as they are safe from criticism, but the facts don't back that up as Peter Bankes has 11 of them, and the next two on the list are Rob Jones (8) and Stuart Attwell (7).

On top of that we have already seen several managers serve suspensions due to picking up 3 cautions

Wait, what was DOGSO?

So that would show that the cautions aren't working. The FA & PGMOL are to blame as they're terrified of players being sent off weekly for their mouths

Today was a clear cut dissent caution at the very least for Young and Brooks bottled it.

 

[RustyRef]

Wait, what was DOGSO?

So that would show that the cautions aren't working. The FA & PGMOL are to blame as they're terrified of players being sent off weekly for their mouths

Today was a clear cut dissent caution at the very least for Young and Brooks bottled it.

I meant OFFINABUS, brain fart.

 

[myrakheti]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I do agree not enough referees report the issue. I think they could see reporting the so called managers and coaches is a weakness not a strength.
The leagues need to do more, but we need to report them.

 

[Russell Jones]

That one was a bit different as it was seemingly DOGSO. What isn't open to any debate though is there have been way more cautions for dissent this season than ever before. At the end match week 12 before the international break, so less than a third of the way through the season, there have been 88 dissent cautions, that's more than the whole of last season (87). I've also seen and heard it suggested that it is only the top two referees giving them out as they are safe from criticism, but the facts don't back that up as Peter Bankes has 11 of them, and the next two on the list are Rob Jones (8) and Stuart Attwell (7).

On top of that we have already seen several managers serve suspensions due to picking up 3 cautions

To back this up. Grassroots referees have spent years (decades?) correctly complaining that the example being set 'on the telly' didn't support them in attempting to do their challenging job at the weekends. This season, the change in guidance / tolerance level for dissent, delaying the restart, timewasting etc is obvious to all that watch games at more senior levels. Whilst there will always be remaining gaps, exceptions and a lack of consistency, the changed perspective as to what needs to be sanctioned should be clear to all. Therefore now is the perfect time for ALL referees to feel emboldened to properly use all the tools at their disposal (stepped approach, sin bins, cards for team officials etc) to send out a clear message to all participants as to what is acceptable in 'the modern game' ....