A&H

Familiarity breeds contempt.......

mikedn

mikedn

Referee/Mentor
Up until last week i always used to chat to the home manager when i got the ground, talk about the condition of the pitch, any previous match history between the teams, general chat about whateve,r but keeping it brief.
Also when i spoke to the away manager i would confirm with him about the condition of the pitch (bumps,dips etc) again mention the past history between the teams and get his version and also just general chat but again all but brief. But now i think to myself.... does this give them the impression i'm a soft referee? do they think they can get away with things because i'm friendly?
After 5 red cards and 17 yellow cards so far this season i'm beginning to think so.Eleven yellows for dissent and 3 reds for second yellows for dissent. So i think there might be something in this.
So from this week, by the rules, get the team sheets,check the shirt numbers match the players then see how the cards go over the next month.
 
The Referee Store
Personality (i.e. having one) is a massive part of being an effective referee in my opinion, as the ability and confidence to communicate is a big part of the job. It gives off a sense of confidence that I find club officials in general react positively to. So, no I don't think your approach is making any difference, and once you have started dishing out cards most players would realise pretty quickly where your tolerance levels are at, so I can't see how what you say before the game is making a difference.

For me, I am similar in that I try and speak to the managers or club officials in a very down-to-earth way, general chit chat etc. before the game. What I wouldn't do is talk about previous history between the teams as this is either irrelevant, or you know about it already and it doesn't need to be said. However, there is nothing wrong with everything else, just keep it professional but friendly.

Personally, I see it as a positive. I have seen many refs doing the opposite and they just come across as arrogant.
 
God I hate pre-match chit-chat but to each there own. (Although I tend to find an excuse to walk away when the topic of "previous" comes up)
At the risk of sounding like a miserable b***ard I really don't care how they're season's gone. All I care about is the next 90 mins.
If I can get to the 20th minute before I have to speak I am happy.
I'm a fan of maintaining a professional distance.
 
I find having a chat to people on arrival at grounds settles me down and allows some valuable insight into potential issues during the game - teams cannot help themselves when it comes to giving clues as to potential issues, past conflicts etc. it's not what they say, often it's what they are not saying that is important. :)

As for your card rate @mikedn - sometimes high card rates cannot be helped, even when you're refereeing very well. You're right to want to look at potential reasons for high card count in case there is something you're doing which is influencing this, but at the same time sometimes its just how the cards are dealt, excuse the pun. :)
 
I will interact with players and club officials if they want to interact with me. I'm fortunate in that by refereeing mainly in the league where I am fixture secretary and have operated for the last 12 years, most people know me and are willing to chat. That doesn't mean I don't get dissent, I do. It does make me laugh when I've been reacting positively to protests all game and a sub comes on, who has never been refereed by me and starts mouthing off far more strongly than his team mates. You can almost see the team mates cringing. I do however usually cut a player some slack and let the captain do my work for me. there comes a time however when the card has to come out. @mikedn you seem to be finding that time earlier than I do. I am not criticising but have you done any post-match self assessment to see if it is you that is causing this? Is there a common thread through the cards for dissent? Is there something you are doing, that you could do differently, that may avoid one or two of these cards?
 
Each to their own. Personally I like to arrive early and have a chit-chat with managers and coaches before the game. I hope it shows that I have some interest and passion for the game that goes beyond refereeing. I don't think I have any issues with being too friendly and I'm savvy enough to identify anyone who doesn't want to engage in conversation (there are some miserable b~**#?s out there). This approach might not suit everyone but it works for me.
 
I always have a bit of chat with players before KO usually when I'm checking the nets ....just general "Morning Gents hope your all sober " kind of stuff ...They usually give some back......Don't think a bit of mild banter does any harm whatsoever ?

If you walk past players and say "Jewellery off 5 mins to ko they are gonna think you are an over officious D...K !!!

Depends how you like to portray yourself I suppose ?

I'm pretty comfortable coming across as approachable :)
 
I'm pretty approachable, it's just most players have such sh*t chat.
"Where's your spray ref?" - f*cking hilarious mate. I have def not heard that 50 times already this season.... YOU ARE THE FIRST!!!
 
deusex said:
I'm pretty approachable, it's just most players have such sh*t chat.
"Where's your spray ref?" - f*cking hilarious mate. I have def not heard that 50 times already this season.... YOU ARE THE FIRST!!!
Click to expand...
Funny you say that .....1st game of the season the captain came running up to me "here you go ref want you being professional this season " a gave me a can of line spray :D Not had the bottle to use it yet though....
 
Like so many things in life and refereeing, this is a balance and either extreme is wrong.

To not speak at all could well be seen as arrogant, and you may find players trying to test you to find your tolerance levels.

Equally to talk excessively you may well seem soft and they may try to take the piss come kick off.

I try and have a 5 minute chat with each manager, let them do all the talking, give nothing away but find subtle interjections about how you expect them to behave if the opportunity arises, but don't search for it.

The content of the conversation is not so important, but more about portraying yourself as relaxed, confident, keen and authorative, without being arrogant. Lots of smiles, broad shoulders, positive body language.

When I leave that conversation I want to leave them thinking 'he seems ok, but he means business'.

I also make sure I have the same 5 mins with the other manager before ko to prevent favouritism.

Just one last thing- be wary if you used to chat with a team, then suddenly don't. They'll be wondering what they've done to upset you and it could cause more problems than it solves.
 
To be honest i'm not quick to "get the cards out" As long as he's not shouting or swearing at me, i will give a friendly word about dissent and anymore and i will caution you. But i have found that it goes in one ear out the other and into my book.
This is why i say to managers before the match " Have you played these before, how'd it go?" And they will 9/10 say "oh,it went ok we/they had a few booked and our player blah! blah! got booked. So this information forewarns me of any potential situations.
I don't know about you guys but i can sometimes see in the players faces they are getting frustrated/hacked off so there's another visual warning.I mean they seriously go red and looking really annoyed.
i will talk pre-match still, but minimal and i just want to see if there's any difference in the teams attitude.
But i agree what you are all saying.... and i'm not going to make a rod for my own back.
One player actually said to me " I didn't know you can get booked for arguing with the ref" A tinge of last weeks ref ???
 
Lad turned up on Sunday looking like he'd been ten rounds with Tyson.

One cheek swollen, I walked up to him and said 'Look fella that's alright just don't go in the wall for free kicks....*he nods*....and if you do turn your face the other way or you'll need to be twenty yards back!'

Player laughed his head off, didn't have a problem with him all game. Every single other time I've had him he's been annoying as hell and caused me problems.

Talking to players helps you!
 
A lot of managers that I have refereed prefer the referee to talk to them before the game as it shows them that you are an enthusiastic referee and a confident one. I also find that they show me more respect if I have a chat before the game. It shows that we are humans, not robots
 
I will always have a few words with managers and players for that matter pre KO. I don't think it does any harm nor do I believe it does any good as once the game commences they return to type and you are seen as the enemy as soon as you give a decision they disagree with. If you are really unlucky you will come across a player or manager who lets you know they once were a referee, at least they are letting you know up front that they are the ones to look out for!
 
Don't you pretty much HAVE to engage with manager in any case.

Team sheets, names of subs, match fees, getting a CAR etc etc - would find it pretty odd at any level if some level of interaction with manager wasn't necessary before any match.
 
Well even after a couple of matches there has been 2 YC and 1 RC..... although contradicting myself i have been talking to managers etc. and it is just a matter of when a team starts losing/not playing well especially against a team lower than them in the league, they start arguing amongst themselves and then the ref cops the flak. What excuse do the managers give "In the heat of the moment, they forget everything don't they"
One step forward, two step forwards ..... methinks..
 
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