The Ref Stop

Game of two halves- a report on todays game

G

Gaz

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Very disappointed with my game today. Excuse the size of the post but I feel like I need to unload.

Had been given a cup Quarter Final and was looking forward to it for a few weeks.

Turned up at the ground, looked smart, did my regulars e.g. inspection, meet and greet gaffers. All going well. Game is Blacks vs Greens, met the captains and outlined my expectations, emphasising this was to be an important cup game and I wanted things squeeky clean. Handshakes and coint toss, etc.

First half I had a good game. Decision making (IMO) spot on throughout, good positioning and good judgement of offsides on the whole (club liners today only). Match management was appropriate on the whole.

Around the 15th minute- green player 11 careless challenge on black midfielder. I blew immediately, but as they were getting to their feet both were in the faces of ech other, no punches thrown, no real pushes anything like that to be seen, just shouting and handbags. Whistled and waited until they calmed. I called them both over to me, made very clear that I had seen the foul and blown and any future reactions would be yellows- "you don't want to spoil this for yourselves by getting cheap cards, okay?". both players shook, agreed and thanked me for my thought, and I thought it was settled there. (Mistake 1)

Two bookings in the first half for Green team, 0 for Black.
- One for a reckless challenge by the same player (green 11) who made the above careless challenge on the 20th minute. Made it clear that I wasnt going to have any more from him- YC.
- Green captain decided that he was going to give me an earful for booking green 11. I warned him only that I wanted no more dissent (Mistake 2).
Two minutes later, he makes a borderline careless/reckless challenge for which I blow a free kick. He gives me a few choice words and I decide to book him, making it clear that it is for dissent.

Otherwise, a good game. first half ended 1-1. Pretty pleased about my first half, other than the things I highlighted which may have ended up being mistakes, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Second half, the game was going well and match was well controlled. A few bookings for green team within first fifteen minutes of the half, one for C5 (not ten yards) after I had given him lots of warning, and second for another reckless challenge.

This is now 4 bookings for Green, 0 for Black. At this point, the whole "ref theres two sides on here" starts from green management and captain (who ive already booked). I give captain a further warning that hes on his last legs, ignore the sidelines.

MAJOR MISTAKE OF SECOND HALF ON 70 MINUTES: at this point the score has just been pulled back to 2-3 to greens. ball is played through to a green striker. I put my whistle near my mouth, assuming he is offside (5 yeards beyond nearest defenders) but then glance over and see Black 3 (LB) playing him on, I think! Difficult one, close call in my opinion and Im unsure I got it right. I didnt blow, green runs through and scores to make it 2-4.

Black team and bench erupts. Various dissent from all angles, including insistence from players that I was going to blow. The manager on the touchline calls me a "f-ing cheating c***" at the top of his voice. At the same time, three or four players surround me, saying I have wrecked the game, saying it was a disgrace.

To my horror (after the situation) I didnt dismiss the manager! Not only that, I didnt book any of the players! Im not sure what I was thinking at the time, and it makes me shudder to think I didnt do anything. Didnt even say anything to him, had strong words with a few players but nothing more than that.

Game settles afterwards, contest is effectively over. There is a further potential card for careless/reckless challenge by green captain (who by this team is on his last warning- mistake...3?4? of the game) who again I tell FINAL WARNING.

Game finished 2-5 to Greens. 1 yellow for the Black team, 5 yellows Green team. No dismissals.

On the drive home had a horrible time to reflect on the game, and I thought I would have to post it here for picking apart/my own reflection/ a kick up the backside. Had a terrible second half and came home genuinely upset and disappointed that I had such a shocker in the second half.
 
The Ref Stop
My Questions are this:
1. Could/should I do anything about the manager of Blacks after the game? Didn't say anything at the time or after but know I should have done. What about the other dissent I got from the decision?
2. First challenge- bookings for both players to set my stall out?
3. Dissent- how much is too much? Still can't get my finger on the right level, and feel I might have been crucified if an assessor was there today.
4. Should I have blown for offside green on 70 minutes? I 'think' it was onside but it was marginal, and I was pretty much the only one who saw it. He looked offside, I raised my whistel (mistake) and then DIDNT blow. It definitely destroyed my match control NOT giving it, and I regret not just blowing.
5. What would you do with Green Captain?
 
Do you know what?
I have had or still suffer from the same problems
My tolerance for dissent is relatively low and I have been pulled up on it and it takes time to be able to judge what is dissent and what isn't.

Something I was told was at the end of the day not many will complain at a yellow card that's given when it could be either but when you don't caution for something that you should have then all hell can break loose.
 
Gaz said:
My Questions are this:
1. Could/should I do anything about the manager of Blacks after the game? Didn't say anything at the time or after but know I should have done. What about the other dissent I got from the decision?
2. First challenge- bookings for both players to set my stall out?
3. Dissent- how much is too much? Still can't get my finger on the right level, and feel I might have been crucified if an assessor was there today.
4. Should I have blown for offside green on 70 minutes? I 'think' it was onside but it was marginal, and I was pretty much the only one who saw it. He looked offside, I raised my whistel (mistake) and then DIDNT blow. It definitely destroyed my match control NOT giving it, and I regret not just blowing.
5. What would you do with Green Captain?
Click to expand...

1. If you feel that it warrants a misconduct report, then send one in! I think it sounds like you should!
2. You did say that they were careless, which was good to give them a public talking to.
3. It's your opinion! The more that you let the players get away with however, the greater chance that there is of something like a mass confrontation kicking off. Draw up two circles, and put things that you think are acceptable and things that are not. Then go from there!
4. I am assuming that your club assistants were doing their own left backs? If so, why did he not see it? The players should be complaining to him, not you! It wasn't your fault that he wasn't paying attention! Secondly, the players shouldn't react to you raising your whistle to your lips! Maybe the adult coaches should use the phrase 'play to the whistle' a little more!
5. Personally, it sounds like you should have sent him off! Just because he is the captain doesn't mean that he has any special privileges! If you let him get away with it, then you're showing the rest of the team what the line is! He is meant to be the role model for the team!
 
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Gaz,
Whatever you did or didn't do regarding the manager I would definitely put in a match report about him. You can't expect or be expected to remember it all, especially with CARs rather than NARs. If in doubt about an offside, you can't give it. As Charlie said, pass it back to the team that you went with the AR. For what its worth I had an CAR today who was flagging for anyone who he thought was offside, a couple of times my whistle went towards my mouth when I saw that the player receiving the ball was not the one who was offside. When there were protests from the defending team I merely shouted "The flag is just an indication to me, play the whistle, not the flag." This shut them up for a bit.
Dissent is always a difficult one. "Come on ref" or "You're joking ref" wouldn't really be dissent to me. Coming right up to me and questioning my decision might warrant a warning from me before a card, but if it was accompanied with some swearing I would definitely go for my pocket. Be careful warning players that "this is your final warning". If you do nothing after, as you have said, a number of "final warnings" you can lose credibility. One thing I was taught, have used a couple of times and indeed used today as part of the much vaunted Stepped approach, call the player over, have a word regarding their conduct and then inform them "I don't want to be having this conversation again, understand?" You are merely suggesting that a card may be on offer, but have not promised one, so if it is overheard by the other team, if you decide not to issue a card next time they can't complain. You leave yourself open if you given someone a final warning and don't follow it up with action.
 
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Charlie, careless isn't a yellow.

Gaz;
1. Did the manager do/say anything post-match for which a misconduct report would be appropriate? If not, The FA will throw it out unfortunately.
Can't do anything about the dissent post-match if you should have dealt with more appropriately at the time.

2. Yes, 100%. Do them both for C1, AA and they will be eating out the palm of your hand for the remainder. (Point of advice to all, in the big games, an early caution will do you wonders!)

3. You've answered your own question. Would an assessor kill you if you don't caution? Yes? Do it! No? You're okay!

4. Times like that (especially with no assessor), it's all about your match control. Sell the offside easily.

5. For me, he goes. Annoy you once post caution and then done! Once received the first caution, if he doesn't know he's on a tightrope, he deserves to go!

Refereeing is all a learning experience. Don't be too harsh on yourself, you WILL bounce back. Everybody makes mistakes, in all walks of life, and every referee has an odd bad game. Don't worry too much fella!

Gaz said:
My Questions are this:
1. Could/should I do anything about the manager of Blacks after the game? Didn't say anything at the time or after but know I should have done. What about the other dissent I got from the decision?
2. First challenge- bookings for both players to set my stall out?
3. Dissent- how much is too much? Still can't get my finger on the right level, and feel I might have been crucified if an assessor was there today.
4. Should I have blown for offside green on 70 minutes? I 'think' it was onside but it was marginal, and I was pretty much the only one who saw it. He looked offside, I raised my whistel (mistake) and then DIDNT blow. It definitely destroyed my match control NOT giving it, and I regret not just blowing.
5. What would you do with Green Captain?
Click to expand...
 
The one thing I would say is don't beat yourself up about it, even if you feel you made mistakes. The only way you really learn in refereeing and life in general TBH is by making mistakes and realising it.

If you have it in you to self assess then you are part way there IMO
 
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Dan, Charlie, Mick: Thanks guys, some really sound advice there that seems to make a lot of sense. :)

Arran: thanks fella, nice to know its not just me! ;) refereeing can be a lonely game, especially if you get something wrong! comforting to know others are in similar boats!

Paul: like you say, I was probably beating myself up about it. Its good to have a think about stuff if you feel youve had a poor game, as my old man says "you only learn through getting stuff wrong, then getting up and doing it better". but there is no ned to lose too much sleep. i suppose now is the time to learn at the sharp end (only just started as level 7 this season!) so its not an FA cup final or anything! having said that, wont be making the same mistakes again if i can help it.

cheers for your words and advice fellas!
 
2. Yes, 100%. Do them both for C1, AA and they will be eating out the palm of your hand for the remainder. (Point of advice to all, in the big games, an early caution will do you wonders!)

Thanks Dan took your point about an early caution for dissent in my game yesterday.

We were three 20 year old officials and the home team captain thought he could push his luck I gave a free kick on 7 minutes against his team mate and he was straight in my face with arms waving.
I just had a nice loud blow of the whistle and said captain with me and cautioned him. What a lovely after noon I had after that no more dissent from either team and not more cautions.
 
Strangely enough I had a shocker today as well. I gave a FK on side of box and the home team scored. the benches and players were not happy.

I had NAR today and stupidly didn't see a player kick the ball away. Also I didn't speak to my NAR who was right next to it. I was told by players who it was and called him over. He admitted to doing it but carried on arguing. He had already argued with some decisions before. I YC him for decent.

I gave a PK in 2nd half for handball. Bloody hell. I got some many players round me arguing. to the moment I have no idea why I didn't caution at least two for decent.

One player told me at the end of the game I ruined the game and heard the same player say during the game it would be the last game I ref as I was so bad.

I know I had a shocker. I'm still kicking myself know. I can't explain why but for some reason I just didn't feel the confidence today.

So glad I was not being assessed.

I was told by the loosing team manager I was way out my depth.
 
refdave83

Just put it behind you and look forward to your next match. We have all had games were players have said you are the worse ref and games were we walk away and think what was I doing.
Don`t beat yourself up!
Maybe it was that hour you lost as the clocks moved forward!:)
 
Gaz said:
My Questions are this:
1. Could/should I do anything about the manager of Blacks after the game? Didn't say anything at the time or after but know I should have done. What about the other dissent I got from the decision?
2. First challenge- bookings for both players to set my stall out?
3. Dissent- how much is too much? Still can't get my finger on the right level, and feel I might have been crucified if an assessor was there today.
4. Should I have blown for offside green on 70 minutes? I 'think' it was onside but it was marginal, and I was pretty much the only one who saw it. He looked offside, I raised my whistel (mistake) and then DIDNT blow. It definitely destroyed my match control NOT giving it, and I regret not just blowing.
5. What would you do with Green Captain?
Click to expand...

My game Saturday was something similar, I had a mere!

Don't worry about it too much, we all have off days!

1. Not much you can do really, unless he has said anything else. Just one of those things that you must do at the time of the 'offence'.

2. Yup. You have told the captains what you expect, now show everyone.

3. Difficult to judge, its a personal thing. I tend to say, if its loud enough for everyone to hear, or if its 'constant', or if he has come a long way to have a go, then book him. I'n your match, from what you have described, then maybe a couple of bookings for dissent would have settled things down, only you will know though. Dissent is an easy booking to 'sell', so if you have an inkling, then do it.

4. If you can sell it, then you could blow. It is way better to give a dubious offside than a dubious goal right?! However, the honest part of me says, if you know he was onside, then why would you give offside? :rolleyes: (Sorry, that answer doesn't help much!)

5. Effectively, he is implying that you are biased. I'm not saying show him a straight red, but like Dan says, he is walking on thin ice, you have done what you can to keep him quiet by booking him. If he wants to have another go, then he faces the consequences.
 
1. Could/should I do anything about the manager of Blacks after the game? Didn't say anything at the time or after but know I should have done. What about the other dissent I got from the decision?
2. First challenge- bookings for both players to set my stall out?
3. Dissent- how much is too much? Still can't get my finger on the right level, and feel I might have been crucified if an assessor was there today.
4. Should I have blown for offside green on 70 minutes? I 'think' it was onside but it was marginal, and I was pretty much the only one who saw it. He looked offside, I raised my whistel (mistake) and then DIDNT blow. It definitely destroyed my match control NOT giving it, and I regret not just blowing.
5. What would you do with Green Captain?
***
1. I'd probably put that one down to experience - tell myself to tackle it straight away in the future.
2. Probably bookings for both - especially in a cup game. Could go either way though.
3. I'm probably too tolerant, but as soon as complaints turn into allegations of cheating (who's side you on ref?, etc) I clamp down on it. Similarly if too loud or someone tries to intimidate me by running up, etc.)
4. Tough one this - I do try not to put the whistle to mouth if I'm not going to blow as that always gets a bad reaction. As has been said though, if I have CARs and they don't give it then unless I'm 100% sure they're wrong then I go with them. In this case it sounds like you couldn't give it as you knew he was on - and that's all you can say to the managers, if they'll listen!
5. Green Capt would've been booked after the 2nd or 3rd time I'd had to speak to him, depending on the extent of dissent. I would certainly have told him that I was looking to him to set an example and not get himself or his team into trouble...next time after that conversation would be a caution.

Must have been something about this weekend! I could've booked two myself, and still not sure why I didn't. One carried the ball away swearing after I gave a FK on the half-way line. Had a word with him but knew it should've been yellow as I was running to my next position. Worse still, late in the second half (score 2-2) I had two incidents within a couple of minutes. First one was a clear pull back by a defender - again, on half-way, but clearly to stop a counter attack. Again I had a word and no-one complained but such a clear yellow, in hindsight. Just after that the ball was cleared from a corner up to the striker who was in the edge of the box just as I was getting across the half-way line - strong tackle but from my angle at the time (I was almost right behind them, trying to widen my view) I couldn't judge with any credibility. Home team up in arms ("worst ref ever"...again!) and from the defense reaction I knew it was almost certainly a pen - and one that would've won them the game. After the game the striker came up to me and I could do nothing else but explain I couldn't see it from the angle I was at, but if it was one then I apologised. He was a bit shocked I think!

It did bother me after the game, but people on here are right - all you can do is try and learn from the errors. I tend to write little notes to remind me on my match record - like the time I got a load of abuse in the last seconds of a match and - despite having decided it was a red - after I'd sorted out the aftermath I inexplicably didn't show anything. After the game I decided that in such cases the notebook comes out straight away, then despite what weird thoughts go through my head I have no choice but to go through with it when everything's calmed down.

Still, eight more games this season to show myself I can improve!
 
Martiju I won't add to the posts that have already been placed in response, however, you know yourself that there are learning points to take from every game.

I decided that in such cases the notebook comes out straight away, then despite what weird thoughts go through my head I have no choice but to go through with it when everything's calmed down.
Click to expand...

Your the one in charge and you decide when the game can move on, don't be rushed into making decisions take your time if its a red card offense.As you say you have 8 games left this season, relax and enjoy them and they will go well.
 
Thanks Dave - relaxing is difficult, but enjoying them is not a problem! I don't think my problem with the cards is about being rushed into decisions - I tend to make my mind up pretty quickly anyway. It's almost the opposite in fact, if I have too much thinking time I start to second guess myself (hence coming up with the trick of getting the book out early). I think that move also helps calm down the offended side, who otherwise aren't sure if I'm going to take any action or not.
 
I would say your biggest mistake was not sending the captain off for a second caution. I'm not sure why referees (and we all do it, against our better judgement) think that after issuing a caution, players are entitled to another verbal warning before being given a second caution. If you follow the stepped approach, it goes quiet word during play -- quiet word during stoppage -- obvious word -- caution -- sending off. That gives a player, potentially, four warnings. If he hasn't learned by the third warning (the caution -- which is used to say 'one more and you're done') or if he's done something that deserves a caution right off the bat, then he doesn't really warrant an additional verbal warning. Just get rid of him and see your day get a lot easier.

Second issue is the manager. If he's going to say what he's said to you (managed to get both 'c' words in one!) then he needs to go. No need for that kind of behaviour on the touch line and the match isn't about the managers so I've a very low tolerance for manager behaviour in my matches but surely even someone with a very high tolerance would have sent him.

Either way, you're letting players get into your head far too much. Did you make the right calls? Do you think you had good positioning? Was your communication effective (this could be your weak point)? Were you assertive (another area of weakness)? You have to identify your strengths and weaknesses independent of what the players think and work on them through that lens, not "what pissed everyone off the most?" Chances are, in my experience, that the things that get most under player's skin are the things that you're absolutely justified in doing. Eitherway, chin up and onward you go.
 
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