A&H

Girls football handball to protect chest

O

Ori

Active Member
What’s the rule on this?
I was reffing an u18 match on Saturday and one girl kept putting her arms across her chest when the ball is kicked at her.
Wasn’t even at pace. I warned her and eventually she did it in the box and I gave a penalty.

I wonder what the actual rule is on this as men’s football they cover their bits during a free kick, but if the moved their arm during a match it would be handball.

What’s the law?
 
The Referee Store
There is no universal rule specific to this. The law is what law 12 says. So local leagues may have local rules around it which may not be support in law. One of the local associations I refereed in had allowed too much until it was quashed by the state body. The rule was as long as you have your hands across your chest you can't be judged handball. Some girls were "chesting" the ball with their hands and getting away with it.


I would treat it the same way as boys football handball protecting their groin. Follow the handball section of law 12 and common sense.
 
one said:
There is no universal rule specific to this. The law is what law 12 says. So local leagues may have local rules around it which may not be support in law. One of the local associations I refereed in had allowed too much until it was quashed by the state body. The rule was as long as you have your hands across your chest you can't be judged handball. Some girls were "chesting" the ball with their hands and getting away with it.


I would treat it the same way as boys football handball protecting their groin. Follow the handball section of law 12 and common sense.
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So I’m not clear on what you are saying here. Hands across your chest isn’t handball?

Common sense to me would allow it in a wall, but not during open play.

What I’m looking for is clarification and what are the actual guidelines?
 
Your common sense make sense to me :)

I would also add (in my common sense) if in open play it is a quick reaction of protective instinct, I am willing to judge it not deliberate in lower levels of football, boys or girls. But if they have enough time to think what to do, they have enough time to get out of the way to protect themselves.

There is nothing specific to this in laws. As far as I know there is no guidance from ifab about it either but I don't know if there is anything from the FA if you are from England.
 
Ori said:
So I’m not clear on what you are saying here. Hands across your chest isn’t handball?

Common sense to me would allow it in a wall, but not during open play.

What I’m looking for is clarification and what are the actual guidelines?
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Has putting their hands across their chest made their body any bigger? (Law 12)

Based on how you describe it, I'd say not and so it can't be considered handball (unless of course we're talking about players deliberately palming the ball away or downwards). You have to call it as you see it using your common sense. The whole concept of "handball" (as I've said on here before) stems from the desire to outlaw the use of the hand/arm because it's viewed as cheating.

For me, reading the Law as it is, then unless their arms are well away from the body and/or above shoulder height, then I'm letting it go. :)
 
Kes said:
Has putting their hands across their chest made their body any bigger? (Law 12)

Based on how you describe it, I'd say not and so it can't be considered handball (unless of course we're talking about players deliberately palming the ball away or downwards). You have to call it as you see it using your common sense. The whole concept of "handball" (as I've said on here before) stems from the desire to outlaw the use of the hand/arm because it's viewed as cheating.

For me, reading the Law as it is, then unless their arms are well away from the body and/or above shoulder height, then I'm letting it go. :)
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My problem with what you say here is that in open play if a player raises his hand to protect his face from a ball then it isn’t hand ball when it clearly is as it’s a deliberate action to touch the ball.

Same with chest.
 
Had similar on a U15 girls match on Saturday morning. She positioned herself to head a goal kick (unchallenged) and lost her nerve last second, squirmed and covered her face with her hands as she made contact. We played on, and no one batted an eyelid.

Think I could have sold it either way, but I did dwell on it for a little while wondering what I’d have done if that was in the box.
 
FirsFox40 said:
Had similar on a U15 girls match on Saturday morning. She positioned herself to head a goal kick (unchallenged) and lost her nerve last second, squirmed and covered her face with her hands as she made contact. We played on, and no one batted an eyelid.

Think I could have sold it either way, but I did dwell on it for a little while wondering what I’d have done if that was in the box.
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For me, that’s handling: she had time and the opportunity to make a choice, and chose to use her hands instead of either heading it or getting out of the way.

The LOTG glossary excludes “reflexive” action from the definition of deliberate. So a reflexive protection of the face or sensitive parts is not deliberate handing. Had the same action taken place on a ball coming quickly at her from a short distance, where she did not have time to make a choice, I would have considered it reflexive and not a HB offense.
 
socal lurker said:
For me, that’s handling: she had time and the opportunity to make a choice, and chose to use her hands instead of either heading it or getting out of the way.

The LOTG glossary excludes “reflexive” action from the definition of deliberate. So a reflexive protection of the face or sensitive parts is not deliberate handing. Had the same action taken place on a ball coming quickly at her from a short distance, where she did not have time to make a choice, I would have considered it reflexive and not a HB offense.
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Yeah, think I agree having replayed it in my head a few times. The ball did almost immediately drop to an opponent and they booted it upfield so think I got away with it, rather then actively making a decision either way. She just panicked and because it was so unexpected, I think I had a brainfart.
 
Ori said:
My problem with what you say here is that in open play if a player raises his hand to protect his face from a ball then it isn’t hand ball when it clearly is as it’s a deliberate action to touch the ball.

Same with chest.
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Like I said, has it made the body shape any bigger? ;)

And no, based on what you've written first, I wouldn't consider it a deliberate action to touch the ball. I'd view it as a protective action to provide a barrier to potential injury or at least painful contact. Just my opinion though ...
 
Kes said:
Like I said, has it made the body shape any bigger? ;)

And no, based on what you've written first, I wouldn't consider it a deliberate action to touch the ball. I'd view it as a protective action to provide a barrier to potential injury or at least painful contact. Just my opinion though ...
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But it is going to hurt a lot more if it hit their nose, and if they had their arm in front of their nose that would certainly be handling.
 
Ori said:
So once again it’s subjective. The ball has to be played at pace. So if it’s not a hard shot then there is no need to do that.
I hate the handball rule. As far back as I remember it’s always been an element of subjectivity. The only time there wasn’t was when they made any contact with the hand a handball……which people didn’t like at all.
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But that has never been the case?
 
If the arm had not been used, would the body have blocked the ball? In that case, has the arm really made the body unnaturally bigger?
 
RustyRef said:
Certainly not in the time I've been refereeing, and that is going back well over 25 years.
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I go back more than 40 (with a long hiatus) and it has never been an offense merely to have contact. Prior to the introduction of “deliberate” for handling (in the 90s?) the requirement had been intentional. (That requirement applied to all penal (now DFK) fouls, though (as with deliberate) the understanding of intent was not what one might get to by simply consulting a dictionary, but focussed on intentional action, not result. The introduction of CREF mostly captured what was already being called with language more directly linked to how it was called.)
 
RyantheRef said:
If the arm had not been used, would the body have blocked the ball? In that case, has the arm really made the body unnaturally bigger?
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This. Based on the OP, it sounds like we’re talking that the players arms are touching their chest, not outstretched in front of them. I wouldn’t be giving handball for that.
 
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