HANDBALL

[wa209]

Hello all... Had a game today with a Handball decision resulting in Pk.. For me, inside PA, with arms away from body. I felt defender had put himself somewhat 'on offer' by having his arms away from body. He was not jumping or contesting a tackle. Decision was contested, not OTT, as you would expect any team to do.

Got me thinking on way home re my own
' threshold' re these offences and the usual natural position application... Just after colleagues steer on what you look for. I get it's somewhat subjective with differing views.... But does anyone use a particular ' rule of thumb'.!
Cheers all

 

[Viridis1886]

It's totally subjective. There will always be a sliding scale from natural position, to unnaturally bigger. Where the actual line is depends on what you think. You just need to keep it consistent within a game as much as it is possible to do so!

 

[Dicky Herts]

I had one last Sunday U16s good standard. Away team 2up at half time. 2-2 with c.10mins remaining. Away team player on halfway line ball bounces off his body during a challenge and hits his wrist whilst his arm is tucked by his stomach, calls of handball, I shout play on, “off his body and natural”, same player sprints and hits a great shot from 25yards, keeper tips it over, corner. Coach shouting something about handball, I ask if he wants an explanation, he says yes, I quickly explain, no handball off body natural arm position but if the shot would have gone in the goal would have been disallowed and FK on halfway line. He then complained that they still got an advantage with a corner. I just said “that’s the LoTG coach.” Then 5mins later home side just outside area whips in a cross and away player just inside his area jumps with a hand above shoulder, hits hand, penalty. Away side lots of complaints about “why is that different” etc. I explain the players arm was away from body, unnaturally bigger and in my opinion there was distance to adjust so penalty. Home team scored, final whistle a few minutes later, hosts won 3-2. This was a 3G fenced pitch with only one gate so stayed on pitch while a couple of away players and a coach said something I pretended not to hear, I said nicely “I didn’t quite catch that can you say it again please” they didn’t. A mum said I’d ruined the game with terrible refereeing “thanks for your feedback madam”.
Unfortunately the handball rule is not helpful for referees, never has been and never will be because there is a degree of subjectivity unless it is clearly a very deliberate handball.
The way I approach it now is to not give a handball unless 1. Hand is clearly away from body and unnatural …. And ….. 2. The player whose hand it touched has gained some even only minor advantage…. And 3 …. I am hearing at least one call for handball from the opposition. … and of course 4 …. If it has led directly to a goal being scored.

 

[RustyRef]

I had one last Sunday U16s good standard. Away team 2up at half time. 2-2 with c.10mins remaining. Away team player on halfway line ball bounces off his body during a challenge and hits his wrist whilst his arm is tucked by his stomach, calls of handball, I shout play on, “off his body and natural”, same player sprints and hits a great shot from 25yards, keeper tips it over, corner. Coach shouting something about handball, I ask if he wants an explanation, he says yes, I quickly explain, no handball off body natural arm position but if the shot would have gone in the goal would have been disallowed and FK on halfway line. He then complained that they still got an advantage with a corner. I just said “that’s the LoTG coach.” Then 5mins later home side just outside area whips in a cross and away player just inside his area jumps with a hand above shoulder, hits hand, penalty. Away side lots of complaints about “why is that different” etc. I explain the players arm was away from body, unnaturally bigger and in my opinion there was distance to adjust so penalty. Home team scored, final whistle a few minutes later, hosts won 3-2. This was a 3G fenced pitch with only one gate so stayed on pitch while a couple of away players and a coach said something I pretended not to hear, I said nicely “I didn’t quite catch that can you say it again please” they didn’t. A mum said I’d ruined the game with terrible refereeing “thanks for your feedback madam”.
Unfortunately the handball rule is not helpful for referees, never has been and never will be because there is a degree of subjectivity unless it is clearly a very deliberate handball.
The way I approach it now is to not give a handball unless 1. Hand is clearly away from body and unnatural …. And ….. 2. The player whose hand it touched has gained some even only minor advantage…. And 3 …. I am hearing at least one call for handball from the opposition. … and of course 4 …. If it has led directly to a goal being scored.

You can't disallow a goal for accidental handling on the half way line even if the same player that handles it scores. The key word in the law is immediately, if he has run from the half way line to smash it in from 25 yards that can't possible have been immediately after he accidentally handled it.

 

[Russell Jones]

I had one last Sunday U16s good standard. Away team 2up at half time. 2-2 with c.10mins remaining. Away team player on halfway line ball bounces off his body during a challenge and hits his wrist whilst his arm is tucked by his stomach, calls of handball, I shout play on, “off his body and natural”, same player sprints and hits a great shot from 25yards, keeper tips it over, corner. Coach shouting something about handball, I ask if he wants an explanation, he says yes, I quickly explain, no handball off body natural arm position but if the shot would have gone in the goal would have been disallowed and FK on halfway line. He then complained that they still got an advantage with a corner. I just said “that’s the LoTG coach.” Then 5mins later home side just outside area whips in a cross and away player just inside his area jumps with a hand above shoulder, hits hand, penalty. Away side lots of complaints about “why is that different” etc. I explain the players arm was away from body, unnaturally bigger and in my opinion there was distance to adjust so penalty. Home team scored, final whistle a few minutes later, hosts won 3-2. This was a 3G fenced pitch with only one gate so stayed on pitch while a couple of away players and a coach said something I pretended not to hear, I said nicely “I didn’t quite catch that can you say it again please” they didn’t. A mum said I’d ruined the game with terrible refereeing “thanks for your feedback madam”.
Unfortunately the handball rule is not helpful for referees, never has been and never will be because there is a degree of subjectivity unless it is clearly a very deliberate handball.
The way I approach it now is to not give a handball unless 1. Hand is clearly away from body and unnatural …. And ….. 2. The player whose hand it touched has gained some even only minor advantage…. And 3 …. I am hearing at least one call for handball from the opposition. … and of course 4 …. If it has led directly to a goal being scored.

Some good analysis and approach here. Just a couple of thoughts for your consideration.

1) With regard to the attacking accidental handball incident, law states that this should only be penalised if a goal is scored (by that player) immediately. Whilst immediate is not defined, feels like it would be stretching a point if the handball occurred on the halfway line and was followed by a 25m run before the shot
2) Your closing list of when you would give a handball #2 ... if an offence has been committed then you should feel free to give the decision even if no real advantage has been gained by doing it. That said, it obviously increases the chance of there being the possibility of advantage for the OTHER team

 

[Dicky Herts]

Some good analysis and approach here. Just a couple of thoughts for your consideration.

1) With regard to the attacking accidental handball incident, law states that this should only be penalised if a goal is scored (by that player) immediately. Whilst immediate is not defined, feels like it would be stretching a point if the handball occurred on the halfway line and was followed by a 25m run before the shot
2) Your closing list of when you would give a handball #2 ... if an offence has been committed then you should feel free to give the decision even if no real advantage has been gained by doing it. That said, it obviously increases the chance of there being the possibility of advantage for the OTHER team

Thanks. Understood. Funnily enough the handball on the halfway line was their central defender running in winning a challenge then the ball hitting his wrist, he continued at pace and had a shot I would estimate within 5secs of the handball incident so it really did feel like it was “immediate” and it felt I’d have easily sold that decision. However I do get what you are saying. Thank you

 

[JamesL]

Thanks. Understood. Funnily enough the handball on the halfway line was their central defender running in winning a challenge then the ball hitting his wrist, he continued at pace and had a shot I would estimate within 5secs of the handball incident so it really did feel like it was “immediate” and it felt I’d have easily sold that decision. However I do get what you are saying. Thank you

5 seconds in football is not immediate.

I take immediate to mean the very next action. Running some 25 yards takes away the immediacy for me and makes it soon after as opposed to immediately after.

The dictionary has immediate defined as "occurring or done at once; instant." And that should be the concept applied to immediately scoring goal after the ball has touched the hand/arm.

 

[socal lurker]

In the original iteration of the accidental HB offense, the FK at the halfway line would probably be right. But IFAB deliberately narrowed it Down in a couple of different ways. As others have said, immediately really means right away, not after multiple dribbles.