A&H

How can a player get to adult football NOT knowing what dissent is?

I have never checked studs before a game and wont be starting anytime soon, a very well known PGMO referee who shall remain nameless actually mentioned this at a recent meeting, he runs his sons team and it amuses him how many ref's stand there checking studs and then lecturing the teams on what they can expect. For me I will brief the captains but that's it. I do a standard jewellery check but if a player has got a necklace on under his shirt how are you going to know? "Right lads, jewellery check can you all take you tops off please".
 
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Anthony said:
Your quote deusex; "It's also clear referees aren't doing their jobs in the other matches."
yet you are not doing a boot and jewellery check. How can you spot a necklace during play if it under a shirt and if you are looking that closely at players what are you missing elsewhere? If you spot the keeper has an earring that is a significant stoppage in the middle of a match. I am perplexed.
I have spotted and dealt with numerous players boots with multiple missing studs, worn down studs so the metal is showing and split boots - all unsafe for them and other players especially. Quick check for shin pads at the same time.
Do you inspect the field of play for dangerous objects and dog/animal foul? Please tell me you do and you just didn't mention it in your last post.
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If it's under a shirt how will I spot it during an inspection? Seems more likely this would become visible during the match. If not, I cannot stop a player from wearing a necklace I cannot see.
As for checking 500 studs before each game, I'd just be pretending I'm looking at each one, I would spot missing studs, but I fail to see how they are any more dangerous than an actual stud.
Anyone who says they know each stud is fit for the match after an inspection has just used up 30 mins, or is a liar.
I don't understand your worn down comment, aren't the whole of studs metal?
I've yet to this day see an injury brought on by poor stud maintenance, maybe there are, but (properly) checking each stud is impractical.
I walk the centre of the pitch between checking net and goals. Dog mess is usually pointed out to me by players. What with there being 30 of them and one of me.
 
deusex said:
If it's under a shirt how will I spot it during an inspection? Seems more likely this would become visible during the match. If not, I cannot stop a player from wearing a necklace I cannot see.
As for checking 500 studs before each game, I'd just be pretending I'm looking at each one, I would spot missing studs, but I fail to see how they are any more dangerous than an actual stud.
Anyone who says they know each stud is fit for the match after an inspection has just used up 30 mins, or is a liar.
I don't understand your worn down comment, aren't the whole of studs metal?
I've yet to this day see an injury brought on by poor stud maintenance, maybe there are, but (properly) checking each stud is impractical.
I walk the centre of the pitch between checking net and goals. Dog mess is usually pointed out to me by players. What with there being 30 of them and one of me.
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I have told you a million times to stop exaggerating. :confused:Your maths is way off; 500 studs, 30 mins, 30 players! If you rely on players to tell you about dog mess:poop: it is likely to be during the match and yet another stoppage. Surely when you were being assessed checking players and the FOP pre KO was mandatory.

Have you ever been an officially appointed AR at a match? The referee will always tell you to take a team and check boots, undergarments and jewellery.For jewellery these players are asked this at every match and will pull down the collar of their shirt then show you their hands out of habit. There is a limit to what you can check for on your own but if you make the effort then see a player on the FOP with jewellery then you can with a clear conscious remove him.

I am not a liar and it only takes me a few minutes to check every players boots.Studs are usually plastic with a central screw made of metal. As the plastic wears away the metal becomes visible. The damage this can do to other players skin is terrible. Also if the stud is missing the metal it screws into can be proud of the sole and finally if they are missing more than 1 stud they could be endangering themselves.

My warm up is on the FOP so I am scanning the ground at the same time and will remove rubbish, sticks etc. I will use a stick to mark dog foul then draw the home side manager to it for him to remove.

Maybe you should give it a go. Like most things, once you have done it for a while it becomes quicker and easier to know what to look out for.

I hope I have been constructive and apologise if I come across as critical or negative. I am passionate about improving the quality of life for referees but believe we could help ourselves a bit more.:) You must be good to be a level 5 referee but I find I can still improve and pick up lots of good ideas from this forum. Just the other day after 10 years I swapped watches around so the countdown timer was on my left wrist and used that for stoppages in play. Now at a glance I can see exactly how long is left and no more "x mins left plus (glancing at other stopwatch) 2 mins of stoppage"
 
I have been AR to many level 4's and some level 3's and never been asked to check studs. I do agree on the jewellery and under garments etc and give my AR's the same brief. I also do my warm up on the pitch so can remove anything that may be there, especially on a Sunday morning as this can range from a shredded can to a pile of :poop:.
 
Cheshire if they get to higher levels studs will be checked. If I was injured by a damaged stud I wouldn't have any qualms in suing the referee if he failed to do a stud check.
 
Chesh, presumably you lost a mark here and there for not checking studs during your assessments.... love it when the studs are covered in mud during most of the winter

Bester, refs are unsueable for pretty much everything, as per the lotg...so good luck with that
 
bester said:
Cheshire if they get to higher levels studs will be checked. If I was injured by a damaged stud I wouldn't have any qualms in suing the referee if he failed to do a stud check.
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You inspect every single stud in a stud check to see if any are damaged? Even when players raise their boot for < 0.5 seconds, you try to spot damaged studs?
 
bester said:
If I was injured by a damaged stud I wouldn't have any qualms in suing the referee if he failed to do a stud check.
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And you would get precisely nowhere.

The referee is not responsible for the safety of footwear and even if he were you would have huge difficulty in a) proving any sort of negligence on the part of the referee b) overcoming the specific statement in the LOTG that "A referee (or where applicable, an assistant referee or fourth offi cial) is not held liable for: any kind of injury suffered by a player, official or spectator

A jewellery check, however, is required by the LOTG (although you still couldn't sue the ref if you were injured by jewellery).
 
The referee is supposed to check the players equipment to ensure it's safe. It's about protecting the players and yourself, if you haven't done a cursory check you leave yourself open to comebacks.
What checks an individual referee chooses to carry out is down to him, however I very much doubt a line in the LOTG is going to protect you if you're found to be negligent.
 
bester said:
The referee is supposed to check the players equipment to ensure it's safe. It's about protecting the players and yourself, if you haven't done a cursory check you leave yourself open to comebacks.
What checks an individual referee chooses to carry out is down to him, however I very much doubt a line in the LOTG is going to protect you if you're found to be negligent.
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You cannot check every individual stud of 22+ pairs of boots with a 'cursory' check
 
a player with damaged studs injuring someone else? If anyone were at fault here it's the player with the dodgy studs himself, but even then how could you prove the player knew about it and it hasn't happened in the game?

if the referee knows about it and does nothing that would be negligent it's still massively difficult to prove.
 
bester said:
however I very much doubt a line in the LOTG is going to protect you if you're found to be negligent.
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If the player has signed a form agreeing to adhere to the LOTG I'd say your pretty well protected.
I'd also add that even if he hasn't there's a pretty good ase for an implied contract.
I've turned into the internet lawyer I so loathe.
 
Sorry. I cant understand this compensation where theres a blame theres a claim kind of attitude.

The ref is not responsible. No court would even entertain the idea of you suing the ref. No way a stud based injury is possible to be blamed on a person. Surely you could sue a player for going in studs up on you and breaking your leg? Based on your idea.

Stud faulty hence player injured? Or contact leading to stud becoming damage? When did the stud become defective? Pre match or during play?

Minefield, and not winnable.
 
If anyone was to be found liable for an injury caused by a damaged stud, it would be the player, certainly not the referee. When you step onto the pitch, you accept that you will be exposed to certain risks. One example of a situation where a referee would likely be negligent is playing on a frozen pitch (notice the emphasis on likely, duty of care is notoriously difficult to establish).

I really hate this where there's blame there's a claim culture. Yes, I'm aware of the irony of a law student saying this! :D

Good luck inspecting studs when they're covered in mud. I don't check studs before a game, a cursory glance at the boots during the respect handshake will usually indicate any issues. I also use the handshake to check jewellery and undergarments.
 
Matthew said:
I don't check studs before a game, a cursory glance at the boots during the respect handshake will usually indicate any issues.
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:confused: How does that work then, x-ray vision?

....and even respect leagues don't have to carry out a pre-match handshake

clearly some do, some don't where studs are concerned - if you go for promo, you should be losing marks for not checking studs pre-match and at every substitution.......just saying like :)

not sure what this all has to do with dissent, mind
 
haywain said:
if you go for promo, you should be losing marks for not checking studs pre-match and at every substitution.......just saying like :)

not sure what this all has to do with dissent, mind
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Rightly or wrongly, I got to L5 in Matthew's county never doing a pre match boot check once. Has never been mentioned by an assessor. And were I assessing I wouldn't be bothered if he did or didn't.
 
I am with Deusex on this one never has it come up on ANY assessment either my own or the numerous de-briefs I have sat through with L4's, so in answer to your question @haywain no I haven't lost a single mark for not checking studs.
 
@bester "if they get to higher levels studs will be checked"....Really, like I said I am talking about Level 3 referee's here, not once have I been asked to check. I have always thought is a little archaic to be honest (just my opinion)
 
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