A&H

I'm useless with words

Paul_Jones

Paul_Jones

Member
Level 7 Referee
Admin i wasnt sure what section to put thid in so please feel free to move it if there is a more appropriate section.

I'm looking for a bit of advice on two fronts.

First of all as the title says I'm useless with words. what I mean by that is, whenever I call a player over for a warning I neverknow what to say or if what I say will have the correct impact. I normally keep it short and just say things like "any more tackles like that and you'll be in the book" but i'm just wondering if theres any other things i should be saying. i suppose it is clear and to the point!

The next bit is i'm too lenient, especially with dissent. I get a lot of shouts for "in the back" despite trying to position myself square on by judging the distance of keepers kicks etc. Appeals dont bother me as they are part of the game. But when i say no way its the screaming, shouting or moaning after it that can get tiresome. I get a lot of appeals for tackles etc and if theres no foul again i will shout no foul or words to that effect so all the players are clear to play on. off side is a big one when we have no NAR's and i take the decision myself. Again i do my best to get as close to the back line as possible using my diagnals and will shout "he's ok" if hes onside. I'll keep my cards in my pocket if i can but imhave done 49 games and "only" given out 9 yellows. 6 of these to players who have been warned butnthen can't keep their mouths shut.

Is there a good way of managing the situation? I try to speak to players as much as i can to manage the situation without cards but some either A) dont listen or B) take my words of leniency for stupidity.

I'm ready for some criticism for being too nice so fire away. i'm here to learn and accepting constructive criticism is certainly part of that
 
The Referee Store
First of all mate it sounds from your post you are constantly waiting to be criticised.

Don't!

The talking thing is largely about taking your time in my opinion. It's not so much what you say but the fact you have drawn attention to an incident and you're slowing the game down.

It's very easy when you pull a player over to be tempted to get what you have to say over very quickly. Take your time. Make it to the point yes, but take as long as you can for the good of yourself, the game and the players.

If I pull a player in for a warning say for a foul tackle I try to pull them about 10 yards from the location of the foul, on their own, away from everybody. Facing the pitch and the players. For me it goes like this:

*blow whistle, signal foul*
Couple of short fast blows of whistle, 'blue 10' (repeat as many times as required to get their attention), open palm to the neutral ground you want them to meet you at.

When they get there, positive confident body language, if they want to talk at you and explain their point of view let them, they won't shut up until they've got it off their chest. Ask their name. Ask them to repeat it. Always, even if you've heard it. Takes a second longer, shows you want to get it right, helps you to remember their name. Next start the sentence with their name.

'Darren, I've pulled you over because in my opinion that tackle lacked control/boardered reckless/whatever reason. I admire your commitment Darren but I am warning you I've seen it, acknowledge it and am continuing to watch you. Thank you Darren.'

Works for me and takes 30 seconds or so.
 
RegalRef said:
First of all mate it sounds from your post you are constantly waiting to be criticised.

Don't!

The talking thing is largely about taking your time in my opinion. It's not so much what you say but the fact you have drawn attention to an incident and you're slowing the game down.

It's very easy when you pull a player over to be tempted to get what you have to say over very quickly. Take your time. Make it to the point yes, but take as long as you can for the good of yourself, the game and the players.

If I pull a player in for a warning say for a foul tackle I try to pull them about 10 yards from the location of the foul, on their own, away from everybody. Facing the pitch and the players. For me it goes like this:

*blow whistle, signal foul*
Couple of short fast blows of whistle, 'blue 10' (repeat as many times as required to get their attention), open palm to the neutral ground you want them to meet you at.

When they get there, positive confident body language, if they want to talk at you and explain their point of view let them, they won't shut up until they've got it off their chest. Ask their name. Ask them to repeat it. Always, even if you've heard it. Takes a second longer, shows you want to get it right, helps you to remember their name. Next start the sentence with their name.

'Darren, I've pulled you over because in my opinion that tackle lacked control/boardered reckless/whatever reason. I admire your commitment Darren but I am warning you I've seen it, acknowledge it and am continuing to watch you. Thank you Darren.'

Works for me and takes 30 seconds or so.
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Thanks regalref. I try to pick up on names if i can before ive even had a decision to make. I find calling people by their name helps. I think your point about slowing the game down is a very valid point and I will use this as and when required this coming weekend. Come to think of it, on sunday I gave a foul and as i went to see if the player was ok his team mate asked me "aren't you going to have a word?". I then replied that the injured player was my first priority and took a short while to make sure he was ok before calling the offender to one side it did seem to calm the situation. the offender got my short "you were late, watch your tackles" but after that he had a good game.

Any advice on my tolerance level for dissent at all?
 
In terms of the dissent that would be much easier, and I personally take a different approach.

Tolerance level is each to their own, but in my case said loudly or for the benefit of others in one comment = strong word, anything more = caution.

Most dissent occurs during a stoppage/restart in play. If something catches my ear for the wrong reasons, immediately stop the restart from commencing, pull the player towards me (no neutral ground).

Hopefully by the time the player has got to you they've shut up. If not I'll tell them to listen and use the calm down hand gesture. If they don't take the hint at that point a card ensues. If they do:
'Please listen. At no point have I kicked the ball in this game. It's not my job. I have also not told you how to play. I expect the same respect in return. I am realistic and don't expect you to agree with every decision I make. I do however expect you to accept it and get on with the game. No more please'

Again, take your time. Speak slowly, clearly, confidently and in your most authoritative tone.

Note the lack of thanks, and no name asked for (unless caution of course). Not interested if that's the way they intend to behave. If they cross the line into a card I also add a reminder that they are not immune from a second caution for dissent if they cannot control their mouth.
 
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Paul_Jones said:
. I normally keep it short and just say things like "any more tackles like that and you'll be in the book" but i'm just wondering if theres any other things i should be saying. i suppose it is clear and to the point!
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Hi There Paul .....There is no way I'm gonna criticise you , but the statement above leaves you open to having to give 20 players a free tackle before your cards come out leaving you in a very bad place when it comes to match control .

Sometimes an early card for a tackle sets you a marker then its down to the players to respond ....just keep it as consistent as you possibly can .
 
You're not alone, I could have written that piece almost word for word. I'll be reading the responses closely.
 
Beezer said:
Hi There Paul .....There is no way I'm gonna criticise you , but the statement above leaves you open to having to give 20 players a free tackle before your cards come out leaving you in a very bad place when it comes to match control .

.
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How do you figure that? I'm struggling to see how you've reached any of the conclusions in your post...
 
There's some great advice from Regal Ref there who is clearly a wordsmith (and I'm now going to use those lines in my next game). I am slightly less wordy, not because I can't express myself but because I find invariably a player is not even listening or he is trying to back away as I'm talking. I keep it a bit shorter but the advice above is excellent and pretty much the same as I use.

I don't think you should consider yourself too lenient, I'm have a high tolerance level myself and there's a fine line in every game between letting it flow and keeping match control. In some games a bit of leniency if welcomed by the players, in others it's a nightmare and causes lots of issues. The best referees are able to work this out fairly quickly and can maintain a consistent approach for 90 mins.
 
RegalRef said:
When they get there, positive confident body language, if they want to talk at you and explain their point of view let them, they won't shut up until they've got it off their chest. Ask their name. Ask them to repeat it. Always, even if you've heard it. Takes a second longer, shows you want to get it right, helps you to remember their name. Next start the sentence with their name.

'Darren, I've pulled you over because in my opinion that tackle lacked control/boardered reckless/whatever reason. I admire your commitment Darren but I am warning you I've seen it, acknowledge it and am continuing to watch you. Thank you Darren.'

Works for me and takes 30 seconds or so.
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@Paul_Jones - I do like RegalRef's ideas, but like you I was never sure what to say. Being a very young referee, I found it difficult to tell the players off.

My route was under the belief that the action was more important than the words said. So I would say things like, "It was late / clumsily, so be more careful next time"; or "Thats two, lets not have to do this again", or for dissent, if you involve the Capt never speak directly to the player. Speak to the Capt like "what I have heard from him is my limit, I am involving you so I don't have to caution him now - have a word".
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
How do you figure that? I'm struggling to see how you've reached any of the conclusions in your post...
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Paul mentioned being too lenient in his OP I was merely passing on a bit of advice I was given early on in my career , instead of giving second chances , give a card, might aid match control ?

Maybe I should PM you all my posts for approval prior to stating my own opinion on this Forum ....... Geeeeeez.....
 
Paul,

Piece of general advice, do have a word at first sign of something you're not happy with and do that in even the most "benign" of matches.

If you let 2 or 3 even quite mild things go, you'll be surprised how much the next confrontation might take you by surprise with his "intensity".

Quick example from my last match, as you will see on "Good News Thread", the game was a joy, but even so an attacker who was fouled (trip, little late, nothing in it) had a "word" with defender. Easy to ignore, but I delayed the free kick and went to see him. In true "player" mode his first comment was "That was a free kick ref" After I had explained that yes that was why I had blown my whistle and his side was waiting to take said FK!, that there was no need for any such action on his part after I have given the foul.

Small incident, quite late in a "quiet" match, but my point is that I may have prevented the next attacker who was fouled doing the same thing.

Much easier to "keep" a match calm, than try to calm one that has got over heated.

Hope that helps.
 
Beezer said:
Hi There Paul .....There is no way I'm gonna criticise you , but the statement above leaves you open to having to give 20 players a free tackle before your cards come out leaving you in a very bad place when it comes to match control .

Sometimes an early card for a tackle sets you a marker then its down to the players to respond ....just keep it as consistent as you possibly can .
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imo this is the best way to deal with it.
 
Beezer said:
Paul mentioned being too lenient in his OP I was merely passing on a bit of advice I was given early on in my career , instead of giving second chances , give a card, might aid match control ?

Maybe I should PM you all my posts for approval prior to stating my own opinion on this Forum ....... Geeeeeez.....
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Probably.

I just think it was a bit of a stretch to assume he's always going to say that to every single player. What alternative statement do you have?

IMO the sort of statement he uses is a good one, as it avoids the 'next foul in the book' sort of commitment.
 
sorry lads been quite busy with work and a couple of games over the weekend. i really do appreciate all the feedback and i certainly will be trying to put the advice in to practice. just to clarify the statement i gave was just a random example amd not something i would be saying to everyone on their first tackle. i did actually caution someone on saturday who said "it's my first one ref" oh sound mate that makes it ok that you were about three hours late!! Anyway... in terms of speeches i tried the more transparent approach when warning a player so the whole pitch could see i was not accepting it. most heeded the warning except one who got a yellow and was very, very lucky not to get a second yellow for carrying on... his manager realised this and took him off sharpish. I seem to be ok with gauging which matches can be allowed to flow and which matches need reigning in to keep control. one player on sunday (in quite a fiesty cup game) commented "you're giving free kicks for the slightest things ref" to which i thought yes i am because if i dont someones going to end up with a serious injury or there'll be a riot!

As i say i really do appreciate the feedback and i'm always learning!
 
Just a quick update for you all.... i adapted my 'toss talk' to include "i do not take kindly to any sort of dissent and if I see or hear any i will be doing something about it. lets not have any stupid tacklesetc etc, enjoy the game"

the first time i done that speech i had a player comment "oh f'in hell ref" at a decision after less than 5 mins. i didnt consider this to be particularly nasty more a FFS comment.... so i called the captain over and the offending player over to me and said "i have told your skipper there'll be none of that, if i hear any more you'll be walking, skipper get control of him" never heard a peep from either side for the rest of the game. the offending player actually commented on how i had refereed the game well etc!

i also tried it on the other 2 games i have done since. again i havent heard a peep from anyone and i am actually finding it a lot easier to manage the game rather than listening to players moaning. the lesson i have learnt is I tried to give an inch and they wanted to take a mile... now i have decided i wont give anyone an inch to exploit.
 
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