RefSix

Jansson red

#21
This is the moment of foul

View attachment 2918

Defender dived in front of him clipping his leg causing him to take a heavy touch making it easy for the keeper to collect the ball.
Yep.. Should have been a straight red for DOGSO really.... But in this instance probably no harm taking the easier option of the YC. Easier to sell, appeal - proof, same outcome this match and for suspension
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#24
You don't? Why not? I can see holding off a while if the player is injured but even then, if they end up being carried off you should still show the card before they leave the field. If the player is just sitting there for no good reason (trying to milk it for sympathy, often) I don't see anything wrong with it. In this instance it wasn't done in an aggressive or confrontational manner and looked perfectly fine to me. On the other side of the coin, waiting too long before sending a player off can have its own downsides as well and (in the words of Macbeth) it's usually a case of, "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly."

I suppose its down to your own view on things, I consider it rude and disrespectful and even though I know I have done it in the past, I dont like it and make an effort not to do it
having the card out at side waiting, for me, is fine, if anyone feels the need to prove they are issuing a sanction before the protesters gather, but, again maybe just for me, its akin to kicking a man when he is down. Guy has committed the foul (can argue whether 2nd yellow or red), (am in the red camp), give him a second to get to his feet and treat him like a human being, not some game deer shot for amusement.

I also look at it like warning a player and he starts fiddling with his socks, if we prefer him up and in everyday pose for this, I think it follows suit that in return we do the same with a card. We classify this as the player showing disrespect to us when he does this, so, vice versa I think its disrespectful of us to card him when he is down
 
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#28
I suppose its down to your own view on things, I consider it rude and disrespectful and even though I know I have done it in the past, I dont like it and make an effort not to do it
having the card out at side waiting, for me, is fine, if anyone feels the need to prove they are issuing a sanction before the protesters gather, but, again maybe just for me, its akin to kicking a man when he is down. Guy has committed the foul (can argue whether 2nd yellow or red), (am in the red camp), give him a second to get to his feet and treat him like a human being, not some game deer shot for amusement.

I also look at it like warning a player and he starts fiddling with his socks, if we prefer him up and in everyday pose for this, I think it follows suit that in return we do the same with a card. We classify this as the player showing disrespect to us when he does this, so, vice versa I think its disrespectful of us to card him when he is down
While I can partly see your viewpoint, I'm sorry, but I'm really not on board with it, not least because I think your analogies are somewhat flawed. The player is not at all like some poor, innocent creature that while standing there doing nothing wrong has been abruptly shot down due to the evil intent of another. The only reason he is on the ground at all, is that he has flung himself there in an unfair and illegal act to prevent an opponent having a chance to score a goal. Nobody has deliberately done him harm in order to amuse themselves, he's there completely by his own volition and for totally reprehensible reasons. If a player makes a genuine but mistimed and ultimately reckless attempt to play the ball and in the process is unfortunately injured, they would be deserving of some sympathy but that's not the scenario here.

As for "kicking a man when he is down," I don't think that's totally true either. A dictionary definition of this phrase that I would agree with, is: "To criticize, exploit, insult, or otherwise treat badly someone who has already suffered a setback or is in a vulnerable position." I'll give you the vulnerable position part but again with the caveat that he's only in that position due to his own blatant and cynical actions. In addition, the player has not suffered a setback - i.e. the player has not had a misfortune inflicted upon him, he is entirely the architect of his own downfall.

Now having said all that, I was not saying it's the recommended procedure that a referee should always card a player while they're on the ground and I have no problem with it if the referee waits a little longer to see if the player gets up, my point was that it's not an immutable and universally-applicable rule that you never, ever card someone when they're still on the ground - as your own experience seems to show since you admit to having done it.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#29
However you word the above, it appears to be mine, and various others views, that to card a player when he is grounded, is rude and disrespectful, and however you can gloss a fancy worded reply in a fur coat,
1> its rude
2>show some empathy to the player, it can be proactive body language
3>when you hear of raging players going after refs, its seemingly little things like this that can trigger it
4> its disrespectful.

you are of course correct, nowhere does the book say not to card someone when they are on the ground, however, I hope the majority of decent people would class this act as separate to the lotg book, and instead file such behaviour in the common decency category

Have I done it, yes, I have seen a foul and been so keen to wave my shiny card around and fend off the gathering masses with my show of authority, I have over looked that the player is still grounded. It was certainly not done intentionally
Is the best procedure to do it? No, if it can be avoided, it should
Will there be an occasion where it might be beneficial? Prob, and if your post is determined to prove its not a rule that you never ever card someone when they are done, then you are indeed correct, there is no such rule

respect though should not have to be written down in a book for it to apply. I guess as a person you either have it, or, you don't.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#30
Rusty will remember John Fashanu being sent off flat on his back on a stretcher at Hillsborough a good few years back. Not ideal but it was his foul that caused his injury!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#31
Rusty will remember John Fashanu being sent off flat on his back on a stretcher at Hillsborough a good few years back. Not ideal but it was his foul that caused his injury!


Ah, being injured and taken off on stretcher, that moves the goal posts a bit
Anyway, in the clip in question, am sure if the ref had another go at it, he would have waiited.
 
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