A&H

Keeper picks up back pass

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cwyeary said:
This is a very basic decision. The keeper handled a ball in the penalty area that was deliberately kicked to him. The restart is an IDFK. This should not be a caution for handling a back pass. Based on your description, a caution for delaying the restart of play would have been justified.

The goalkeeper can NEVER give up a penalty kick for a handling offense. However, they can give up a direct free kick if they handle the ball OUTSIDE of the penalty area.
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Couldn`t agree more
 
I’ve put it through as a C4, I didn’t book him because I was pressured, I booked him because I was certain that the offence of picking up a backpass warranted a yellow, I actually said to him I’m not booking u for kicking the ball away I’m booking you for picking up the back pass. (I was on the halfway line with about 15 players around me going mental about the back pass i didn’t even see him kick the ball away that was the last thing I was worried about, I had a situation to calm down & had to work out the correct re start)

Obviously when he receives his fine he may feel aggrieved as he wasn’t expecting it for kicking the ball away.

As you can probably tell on here I’m an open book I wear my heart on my sleeve, I’m probably to open and upfront for my own good, I only had good intentions regarding this incident hence I came on here to share it in the first place.

Just taken aback that fellow referees would be willing to report a new ref who has been in the middle for 9 games & clearly wasn’t trying to gain personally by not putting a yellow through.

Anyway I’ve put it through & I guess picking up a back pass is one I’ll never forget.
 
Men in Black said:
I’ve put it through as a C4, I didn’t book him because I was pressured, I booked him because I was certain that the offence of picking up a backpass warranted a yellow, I actually said to him I’m not booking u for kicking the ball away I’m booking you for picking up the back pass. (I was on the halfway line with about 15 players around me going mental about the back pass i didn’t even see him kick the ball away that was the last thing I was worried about, I had a situation to calm down & had to work out the correct re start)

Obviously when he receives his fine he may feel aggrieved as he wasn’t expecting it for kicking the ball away.

As you can probably tell on here I’m an open book I wear my heart on my sleeve, I’m probably to open and upfront for my own good, I only had good intentions regarding this incident hence I came on here to share it in the first place.

Just taken aback that fellow referees would be willing to report a new ref who has been in the middle for 9 games & clearly wasn’t trying to gain personally by not putting a yellow through.

Anyway I’ve put it through & I guess picking up a back pass is one I’ll never forget.
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So MiB, lesson learned. You now know what you should have done. You also asked advice and got it. You didn't like it. If you didn't want to follow it then don't tell everyone you'll do something that every referee on here would castigate you for. There are numerous threads about last weeks referee that doesn't follow through with cards.........
Move on, enjoy!
 
Lesson learnt Minty although it wasn’t the advice bit that I had a problem with it was the I’d report you given the chance part.

Anyway It’s done now, onto the next game & the next dilemma
 
Men in Black said:
Lesson learnt Minty although it wasn’t the advice bit that I had a problem with it was the I’d report you given the chance part.

Anyway It’s done now, onto the next game & the next dilemma
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But, after several posters had advised you to submit the caution either for delaying the restart, or as USB and Hen to contact your county discipline department to see how to proceed as the caution for handling the ball was incorrect in law, you said that you were just not going to submit the caution.

And I think it was that which prompted the threat of being reported.
 
zarathustra said:
But, after several posters had advised you to submit the caution either for delaying the restart, or as USB and Hen to contact your county discipline department to see how to proceed as the caution for handling the ball was incorrect in law, you said that you were just not going to submit the caution.

And I think it was that which prompted the threat of being reported.
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Your probably right I can see now how it looked to others, it wasn’t my intention I was just trying to save the keeper from a fine that he didn’t deserve (probably my player instinct coming through again) anyway he’s done for the C4, in future I’ll be putting all cards through regardless.
 
Men in Black said:
Lesson learnt Minty although it wasn’t the advice bit that I had a problem with it was the I’d report you given the chance part.

Anyway It’s done now, onto the next game & the next dilemma
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To be honest I think you might have the problem that I had when I first started refereeing, in that you think and talk like a player. You need to try and get away from that as it will hamper you in the long term - things like saying booking instead of cautioning.
 
Rusty is right, many a time you see something on a football pitch, a great pass, a great shot, a great save, a great goal and you feel like you should be part of that celebration, equally when you see the bad stuff you have to keep a level head and think straight. Refereeing isn't easy at times, Some of us make it look easy but equally one bit of bad luck and your day can go south. Its hard at times to look at something differently to a player, it takes practice, you have to turn off those emotions you had as a player and get into ref mode. It comes with practice, don't worry about it.
 
You’ve shown the card - now report it through whole game.
If you don’t - and you get found out you’re FA potentially can restrict or revoke your refereeing.

Even on a closed doors game - your actions must be reported...

“With 2 cards and a whistle, comes great power and responsibility”
 
MiB,

I can understand the way you felt about putting the report through. You don't want to punish the player for your mistake. Especially after you told him you are cautioning him for picking up the ball. There is also the matter of your own credibility. I give you another example why any reportable decision should be reported as it is.

Years ago I refereed a game with no ARs. Towards the end of the game there was a ball over the goal line incident with my view completely blocked. By the time I had a view of the ball, it was in the goalkeeper's hands on the goal line. The attacking team was appealing for a goal furiously and the goalkeeper looked sheepish but never conceded it was a goal. I did not award a goal. After the game, there was a discussion between the two captains and the goalkeeper. They approached me and said I made a mistake in not awarding a goal. The ball was clearly over the goal line. They looked genuine in their claim. The conceding captain said that I should change the score by awarding a goal for that incident for fairness. It would have made the result a draw.

While I did feel guilty for costing a team a point, there was no chance I was going to change the score. I told them to email the league about the incident. I reported the incident and the after the game discussion to the league. The result stood as it was.

You just have to accept that sometimes your mistakes are going to cost teams or players. Sometimes they cost you (promotion, credibility, pride etc). Attempting to fix one mistake by another mistake should not be part of refereeing (two wrongs don't make a right).

I would not have changed the caution code. I would have reported the incident exactly as it was. Let the league deal with it. If the player gets fined for it, he deserves it due to kicking the ball away, if he doesn't, so be it. If it costs you in terms of your appointments or credibility, its a consequence of your mistake and accepting it. It will give you insensitive to be even more active than you are now to learn the laws of the game and make the correct decision when facing situations like this.
 
one said:
If it costs you in terms of your appointments or credibility, its a consequence of your mistake and accepting it.
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Yes, unfortunately. Sometimes, you will be punished very severely even where you were honest. I remember when I started, bearing in mind I was young and wet behind the ears, I made a genuinely honest mistake post-match that ended up with me getting suspended and caused a bit of aggro between the referee's society that came to my defence, and the association handing down the punishment.

Really, it is just best to try and keep your nose clean, process the admin stuff properly and be honest. Even if they punish you for maintaining your integrity, at least you'll keep that, and it has to count for something. (Though ideally, we wouldn't make mistakes at all, but stuff happens unfortunately.)
 
Do the right thing, not the easy thing.

Even if you do end up catching some flak due to an honest mistake just take it on the chin and use it as a learning experience.
 
Good advice guys, I was only doing what I thought was right morally by the player, but hey I’ve taken it all onboard now if I make a mistake in the future caution wise or whatever else then unfortunately the player in question is just gonna have to accept his fine etc and move on.
 
Men in Black said:
Good advice guys, I was only doing what I thought was right morally by the player, but hey I’ve taken it all onboard now if I make a mistake in the future caution wise or whatever else then unfortunately the player in question is just gonna have to accept his fine etc and move on.
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Soooooo after all that, yesterday's result must have cheered you up!:)
 
Big Cat said:
So I'm also fairly new to the game, 12 months down the line. Recently had a defender bring the ball under control with a single deft touch, only for the keeper to race in and pick it up. I gave it as as IDFK, but struggled to instantly find the words to explain why this was the call when challenged by players. In the absence of a 'pass back', i later said the act circumvented the rule
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Are you sure the ball was deliberately kicked by the defender to the keeper? If it looked like the defender controlled the ball intending to clear it himself and had no clue what the keeper was going to do, then to me this doesn't sound like a violation of the law. If on the other hand the defender stops the ball, looks around for the keeper, then steps aside to let the keeper come and get it, that would be a more questionable one for me. I think you have to be sure that it was something the defender has done deliberately in order for the keeper to take possession of the ball. As far as I'm concerned, especially if it's a one-off event, I'd be inclined to let something like this go - until or unless it becomes a pattern and this defender or others start making a habit of doing the same thing.

Also, this is not circumvention. Circumvention is when the defender uses a deliberate trick in order to manufacture an artificial situation allowing them to use a body part other than the foot, to play the ball to the keeper. Examples would be using the foot to flick the ball up from the ground to the head, chest or knee, or kneeling down on all fours in order to push the ball to the keeper with the knee, head etc. When this happens, it doesn't matter if the keeper uses the hands or not, the offence is committed by the defender who is trying to get around the prohibition on kicking the ball to the keeper.
 
So I can’t flick the ball up and head it back to keeper, interesting.

Also I had it myself at the end of my last game, box full of players 90th min 5-4 to away team, ball falls from sky defender traps it & then keeper shouts keepers and dives on ball, lots of appeals for back pass I said no chance, THE KEEPER SHOUTED FOR IT AFTER THE DEFENDER HAD CONTROLLED IT.
 
Men in Black said:
So I can’t flick the ball up and head it back to keeper, interesting.
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And be aware that this is a MANDATORY caution to the player who flicked it up to head/chest back to the GK. In fact, the reason you are justified to give the indirect kick is due to giving the caution.
 
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