A&H

Junior/Youth Manager getting sent away... Then not again

J

Jacob Walukiewicz

Active Member
I was playing yesterday (U16) and our CAR gave a goalkick, he wasn't up with play but the ref stuck with him anyway. There manager suddenly starts throwing abuse towards the CAR saying 'How can you see from there?' etc. this goes on for a while and they are both restrained. The CAR did swear at him and wasn't at all happy.

The Referee then decides the Manager needs to be sent away, but not our CAR. The manager refuses as he has no assistant and claims there is no one to look after the team. Our manager is then called over and they finally come to an agreement that the game will go on with the Manager on the touchline due to the circumstances.

What does everyone think of the situation? Did the Referee do right here?
 
The Referee Store
Personally as it is kids and there is no assistant I would allow him to stay. I would ask the other team manager if he is happy with him staying though as again its kids and he may not be happy with the coach staying there. As you say your manager agreed to let him stay then that would be fine by me. The CAR would be dismissed for me aswell.
 
ETD got child welfare to consider. Send away the only adult representative for a team and the kids have no-one to turn to / respresent them / look after them.

Then again, some of the responsaible persons that are entrusted to look after the kids have a question mark against the responislbe-ness!

Personally, anything U18 has at least one person there for each side, and if he was the only onw he gets a stern, adult to adult talking to. If he still doesnt want to see eye to eye and he has to go, then the game goes with him - ground of H&S of the players, child welfare ya de ya.

Who was / level / how old was the ref?
 
I personally think that if a manager conducts himself in a manner where you would normally dismiss him, you shouldn't be backing out of making that decision just because he's the only responsible adult. Yes, I know, child welfare, safety etc., but if he's guilty of misconduct, he's going. And if he's adamant that there's no one there to look after the team, abandon the game and let the league deal with it.

Saying that, in most cases of manager misconduct, early intervention is the key. The second that first sentence was out of his mouth I'd be on his touchline giving him a bollocking. Although it's difficult to tell from your description (sounds to me like the ref had a chance to intervene but just ignored the manager for a while) this could've avoided the whole situation.

The opposing team manager shouldn't have a say in this. You shouldn't ever let a manager dictate to you what is acceptable and what is not. You're there as the referee to make that decision, the managers opinion is irrelevant.
 
Totally disagree with what the ref did here. If the manager has done something that, in the option of the referee, means that he needs to be removed from the vicinity, the game should not continue until he has left.

Regardless of the circumstances, allowing him to stay is unforgivable in my opinion. If there's nobody to take over, then the game is abandoned, up to him to explain to his players/league/FA how he caused an abandonment.
 
I've only just seen this, but feel I need to my 2 pennies worth.

That manager CANNOT be dismissed! He is the assumed physio and sole first-aider for that team. Under NO circumstances is he to be dismissed. If he does something "dismissal-worthy", inform him that you would normally dismiss but as he is the first-aider, you will be allowing him to stay pitch-side but he will be reported under a misconduct form post-match. Additionally, inform him that if he does anything "dismissal-worthy" again, you will abandon. If he does so, cheerio!
 
DanCohen17 said:
I've only just seen this, but feel I need to my 2 pennies worth.

That manager CANNOT be dismissed! He is the assumed physio and sole first-aider for that team. Under NO circumstances is he to be dismissed. If he does something "dismissal-worthy", inform him that you would normally dismiss but as he is the first-aider, you will be allowing him to stay pitch-side but he will be reported under a misconduct form post-match. Additionally, inform him that if he does anything "dismissal-worthy" again, you will abandon. If he does so, cheerio!
Click to expand...
Sorry Dan, completely disagree - and besides, you contradict yourself within your post - "That manager CANNOT be dismissed!", and "inform him that if he does anything 'dismissal worthy' again, you will abandon".

As the referee, you are not responsible for the manager's behaviour - if he has to go, he has to go. We would never be clarifying with a manager pre-KO "are you the only qualified first-aider with the team today, are you the only adult with the team that has been DBS (previously CRB) checked?". This is all on the manager, and his behaviour, so if it means the match has to be abandoned because of his behaviour so be it. What example would it set to his players if they see their manager "getting away with it"? And whilst the action/fine from the CFA is likely to be paltry (and not a consideration in the manager's mind), the grief he would get from the parents of his team if the match was abandoned due to his behaviour would more than make up for it.
 
No such thing as an un-dismissable manager.

The opposition manager can be asked to act as first aid cover, no youth team should only have 1 properly certified coach to a team. There should always be 2 coaches, both having DBS, EA, and SC as a minimum.

If there is nobody to cover, then it's game over unfortunately.

The trick is to try not to get to the nuclear option of dismissing and abandoning in the first place. Being proactive early on with vocal managers can help avoid these situations.
Explain to them that if they carry you would consider sending them away....if they trot out the 'I'm the physio...etc' line, that's the time to find out if they are genuinely the only one, and then warn them that it would mean abandoning the game in the event they did continue and get dismissed.
If they carry on....well, they've been warned, bin them, end the game, and make sure you put the fact that they had been spoken to and warned of the consequences if they continued in your report.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
No
Click to expand...

What I meant here was, "No, you cannot dismiss the manager in these circumstances IF he is the only one there"

DanCohen17 said:
I've only just seen this, but feel I need to my 2 pennies worth.

That manager CANNOT be dismissed! He is the assumed physio and sole first-aider for that team. Under NO circumstances is he to be dismissed.
Click to expand...

What I should have written. Sorry @xPositor, but the first thought would be to manage the situation and tell the guy what will happen if he carries on, as Dan says. The guy on the sideline should not be allowed to ruin a game of football for the young players, so allow the opportunity to carry on and then you make it HIS responsibility if the game gets abandoned.

Regardless, you cannot send him away AND continue the game unless there is someone else of suitable age to manage the team and provide First Aid.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
What I meant here was, "No, you cannot dismiss the manager in these circumstances IF he is the only one there"



What I should have written. Sorry @xPositor, but the first thought would be to manage the situation and tell the guy what will happen if he carries on, as Dan says. The guy on the sideline should not be allowed to ruin a game of football for the young players, so allow the opportunity to carry on and then you make it HIS responsibility if the game gets abandoned.

Regardless, you cannot send him away AND continue the game unless there is someone else of suitable age to manage the team and provide First Aid.
Click to expand...
I agree with that - you wouldn't be leaping straight in with sending him away - I would hope before it got to that point the realities could be pointed out to him. BUT, if he did get dismissed you would have to abandon in the circumstances you mention.
 
xPositor said:
Sorry Dan, completely disagree - and besides, you contradict yourself within your post - "That manager CANNOT be dismissed!", and "inform him that if he does anything 'dismissal worthy' again, you will abandon".

As the referee, you are not responsible for the manager's behaviour - if he has to go, he has to go. We would never be clarifying with a manager pre-KO "are you the only qualified first-aider with the team today, are you the only adult with the team that has been DBS (previously CRB) checked?". This is all on the manager, and his behaviour, so if it means the match has to be abandoned because of his behaviour so be it. What example would it set to his players if they see their manager "getting away with it"? And whilst the action/fine from the CFA is likely to be paltry (and not a consideration in the manager's mind), the grief he would get from the parents of his team if the match was abandoned due to his behaviour would more than make up for it.
Click to expand...
Not contradicted myself at all. The manager cannot be dismissed, but absolutely can do "dismissal-worthy" things. In that case, you are to inform him he will be reported. If he continues, you are forced to abandon because, as Padfoot also says, the game cannot continue without the responsible adult there and you as the referee wouldn't continue with a manager acting like that.

And btw, as the referee you absolutely do need to check who the first-aider/s is/are. Once those players are on FOP, it's your duty of care and your "safeguarding children" training coming to fruition. Finally, if there is only 1 manager there, it IS safe to assume he/she has been DBS checked by the club (and done FA Emergency Aid), but it is absolutely NOT safe to assume any other parent has been too.

xPositor said:
I agree with that - you wouldn't be leaping straight in with sending him away - I would hope before it got to that point the realities could be pointed out to him. BUT, if he did get dismissed you would have to abandon in the circumstances you mention.
Click to expand...
His first "dismissal" is a non-dismissal, much like the upper echelons would do with a proper physio. They can't be dismissed due to H&S, but can be reported (you'd add on to the bottom of the report that he wasn't dismissed from vicinity of FOP due to role as physio/only over 18 etc)
 
DanCohen17 said:
Not contradicted myself at all. The manager cannot be dismissed, but absolutely can do "dismissal-worthy" things. In that case, you are to inform him he will be reported. If he continues, you are forced to abandon because, as Padfoot also says, the game cannot continue without the responsible adult there and you as the referee wouldn't continue with a manager acting like that.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that you would not dismiss, but would just abandon? I think what I'm saying is that I would dismiss, and that would cause the abandonment. Perhaps its irrelevant, and its all down to the wording of the report(s) to the CFA?
 
That would be stage 3 (or 2, depending on wording)

Step 1 - Quiet word to control manager
Step 2 - Attempt to dismiss, unable to do so due to no replacement physio, report (and inform him of such)
Step 3 - He continues, he IS dismissed, thus abandoned
 
DanCohen17 said:
That would be stage 3 (or 2, depending on wording)

Step 1 - Quiet word to control manager
Step 2 - Attempt to dismiss, unable to do so due to no replacement physio, report (and inform him of such)
Step 3 - He continues, he IS dismissed, thus abandoned
Click to expand...

Whilst I totally get where you're coming from, why should the manager get another chance that others wouldn't get just because he's the physio? He doesn't get another chance once he's failed to heed to initial warning(s) and the referee has decided to dismiss; if the game has to be abandoned, then so be it.
 
Because the game isn't about this arrogant t*sser, but his u18 (or below) team. 9/10 times, he'll shut up after step 2. If he doesn't, b*llocks to him and I'm done and off home.
 
DanCohen17 said:
Because the game isn't about this arrogant t*sser, but his u18 (or below) team. 9/10 times, he'll shut up after step 2. If he doesn't, b*llocks to him and I'm done and off home.
Click to expand...

Fair enough! :)

To go off on a slight tangent, is it stated anywhere that the coach has to be the first aider? The reason that I ask is that I, I'm sure like many other refs, am a fully qualified first aider...is there anything that prohibits the ref from taking that responsibility as an alternative to abandonment?
 
A coach (if qualified!) has to be A first aider, he doesn't have to be THE first aider.
As the referee, you cannot assume the role of first-aider to a team, however qualified you are!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top