RefSix

Managing being mobbed by players

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JH

RefChat Addict
#41
Must be a regional thing then, where I am it's completely normal, even on a Sunday morning to do a quick check, some referees will go so far as to get the players to line up for the inspection, but most are more of a wander around and a quiet word type
Must be!
 
#42
Ultimately a balance has to be found between enforcing laws and being sensible, there is no need to show cards for minor events such as these however by now following the laws it will lead to future issues when these youth players grow older, enforce from a young age.
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#43
For the last three years, in addition to refereeing, I’ve run a veterans team.

It’s enough of a struggle to get 11+ players to turn up, if I then had a ref complain and not allow to play someone who was wearing their favourite old shorts from 20 years ago that didn’t match anyone else’s (we had a team shirt, but that was it) or that the electric tape they’d fished out the back in of the car to keep their socks up was the wrong colour we’d have never played (and we’d have sent the ref home without his match fee!)

Be realistic- Saturday league and “important” football this stuff matters, but at some levels it really doesn’t.

Interesting to see who would “win” this debate at a County FA - the RDO trying to enforce the laws, or the Football Development Officer charged with maintaining/increasing player participation numbers.
 
#44
Point taken, but as originally posted, I do youth football (7-18) in the main. I'm not really addressing vets or Sunday morning adult games. My role is as much educator as anything else, mainly of managers, tbh. Be clear and polite and tell them what they ought to be getting their team to do and they'll actually thank you in the long run; problems which may have arisen further down the line will then be nipped in the bud when they're running a team of 8-year-olds, or whatever. I am not trying to stop players taking part and looking to brandish cards for blue under armour with a red shirt - far from it. However, it's a learning process for those in charge and part of what grassroots football involves is actually bothering to read and adhere to the league's laws. All of this can be negotiated with a little tact and good sense.

Sorry to post again off-thread, so will leave it there. Hope this clears up what I was getting at.
 
#45
Point taken, but as originally posted, I do youth football (7-18) in the main. I'm not really addressing vets or Sunday morning adult games. My role is as much educator as anything else, mainly of managers, tbh. Be clear and polite and tell them what they ought to be getting their team to do and they'll actually thank you in the long run; problems which may have arisen further down the line will then be nipped in the bud when they're running a team of 8-year-olds, or whatever. I am not trying to stop players taking part and looking to brandish cards for blue under armour with a red shirt - far from it. However, it's a learning process for those in charge and part of what grassroots football involves is actually bothering to read and adhere to the league's laws. All of this can be negotiated with a little tact and good sense.

Sorry to post again off-thread, so will leave it there. Hope this clears up what I was getting at.
Couldn’t agree more, very valid point
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#46
For the last three years, in addition to refereeing, I’ve run a veterans team.

It’s enough of a struggle to get 11+ players to turn up, if I then had a ref complain and not allow to play someone who was wearing their favourite old shorts from 20 years ago that didn’t match anyone else’s (we had a team shirt, but that was it) or that the electric tape they’d fished out the back in of the car to keep their socks up was the wrong colour we’d have never played (and we’d have sent the ref home without his match fee!)

Be realistic- Saturday league and “important” football this stuff matters, but at some levels it really doesn’t.

Interesting to see who would “win” this debate at a County FA - the RDO trying to enforce the laws, or the Football Development Officer charged with maintaining/increasing player participation numbers.
1. The laws of the game only state that players have to wear shorts and shirts with sleeves.
2. The laws of the game only say that teams should wear colours that distinguish them from the opposition and the match officials, so unless the competition rules state all players have to wear matching shorts then as long as their shorts arent the same colour as the opposition they should be fine.
3. Sock tape is cheap, and you can buy a roll for £1.19 https://www.physique.co.uk/Taping-S...axcDMQtAv1k9yPkb7C0pq0OJaoJrV4DUaAtDDEALw_wcB, it's hardly going to break the bank, and you can probably buy it cheaper else where.

The laws of the game are the laws of the game, the County FA aren't going to tell the RDO to tell referees not to enforce the laws of the game because big Dave from The Nags Head doesn't want to spend a pound to buy the right colour sock tape.
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#47
The laws of the game are the laws of the game, the County FA aren't going to tell the RDO to tell referees not to enforce the laws of the game because big Dave from The Nags Head doesn't want to spend a pound to buy the right colour sock tape.
You're right that the players could very easily adhere to the law, but at the end of the day, you're not going to make big Dave go and buy some sock tape and if you attempt to make him (by way of a caution), it is going to be more trouble than it's worth, where I am anyway. I'd rather have a good rapport with the players before the game than strictly enforce sock tape at Sunday League (other standards are different).
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#48
But Big Dave and his mates have read the current LOTG (just) and recite to the young referee who was just about to abandon the game due to incorrect sock tape and other pettinesses....Referee!....... It clearly says.......

‘’The IFAB expects the referee to make a decision within the ‘spirit’ of the game – this often involves asking the question, “what would football want/expect?” Dave and his mates team can't afford to have matching socks!! It's the ar4e end of football, nobody cares about what happens at the higher levels, that's fine, this is some mates having a kick around!!!
 
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zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#49
Who mentioned abandoning a game?

You lot are very defensive over the fact you can't be bothered to do the job that teams pay you to do, i.e. apply the laws of the game fairly and consistently.

So you don't care about sock tape, what next, maybe big Dave doesn't want to take his nose ring out, but that's ok, it's only Sunday morning football so it's not important.

And Phil didn't want to spend £20 on some shin pads, but that's ok, it's only Sunday morning football so that's not important.

Johnny just threatened to knock the red teams center back out, but let's not do anything, after all it's a Sunday morning and they just want to play football, not pay fines and get suspended, so we'll let that go.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#50
Let’s think why they brought in the ST Rule, some players at elite level were over taping socks as some form of fashion accessory. That may of caused issues for linos, I get that. Was it really ever an issue down the tree? Really? Having similar socks is a challenge for some teams. No issue at higher levels but I’ve 100 problems and sock tape isn’t one of them! Move on...
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#51
As referees we are paid to enforce the laws of the game.

There is no allowance for it being Sunday league so we don't need to apply the laws correctly.

Incidentally you're all making it out to be some massive issue. I've never once had a player who couldn't find the right colour sock tape, or had any players refuse to change their sock tape, or had any match control issues because I asked a couple of players to change their sock tape.

To put it simply, enforcing these laws is not the massive drama that some people make it out to be, probably because they're trying to justify not doing their job.
 
#52
As referees we are paid to enforce the laws of the game.

There is no allowance for it being Sunday league so we don't need to apply the laws correctly.

Incidentally you're all making it out to be some massive issue. I've never once had a player who couldn't find the right colour sock tape, or had any players refuse to change their sock tape, or had any match control issues because I asked a couple of players to change their sock tape.

To put it simply, enforcing these laws is not the massive drama that some people make it out to be, probably because they're trying to justify not doing their job.
Genuine question - what would you do if you turned up for an U13 match and there were no corner flags? In the LOTG you need to have corner flags.

And what if you speak to the coach about it and it turns out they cannot afford them (very common in youth football). What do you do then?

As a youth coach (and a referee) if a referee spoke to me about sock tape colour I think I would genuinely laugh. I think there needs to be a common n sense approach at certain levels of football.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#53
Genuine question - what would you do if you turned up for an U13 match and there were no corner flags? In the LOTG you need to have corner flags.

And what if you speak to the coach about it and it turns out they cannot afford them (very common in youth football). What do you do then?

As a youth coach (and a referee) if a referee spoke to me about sock tape colour I think I would genuinely laugh. I think there needs to be a common n sense approach at certain levels of football.

Corrner flags is specifically mentioned in the laws of the game in relation to the "spirit of the game".

I would allow the match to go ahead and then report it to league/competition afterwards.

You can get a pack of 6 different colours of electrical tape from Amazon for £2.97, or 8 different colours for £7.99. so treat yourself and surprise you next referee by having a team where every player has the correct colour sock tape.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#54
As an aside, I was at my brothers over the weekend and his sons team were told by Lancashire FA that no team was allowed to pile on a goal scorer after a goal as a player had unfortunately died. Can’t find any reference to it but it was said that the boy drowned! If true that’s truly awful....
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#56
Is it just specific to corner flags or is it used as an example for times when you need to get on with the game without worrying for trivial things in grassroots?
It's not just for corner flags, but I don't think it was introduced as a get out clause for weak or lazy referees who can't be bothered to do their job either.

Most of my games players have the right colour sock tape, and when they dont it's normally one or two players who just go and get some from one of their mates who does have the correct colour.

People like to make out it's a huge deal and that there would be riots if we asked players to put the correct colour sock tape on, or that players would stop playing if they have to wear the right colour under shorts/shirts etc.

But the simple fact of the matter is that it isn't the huge deal these people want it to be, they make up these stories because they want to justify why they don't do things properly, and they pretend that the reason some referees do have problems is because of the laws, not because the lazy referees don't enforce them which makes it more difficult for everyone else who tries to do their job properly.
 

Trip

Well-Known Member
#58
I can see both sides of this argument.

I don't think we should conflate insisting on the correct colour sock tape with jewellery removal. They are both in the LOTG but they don't have equal status. One of them affects player safety. The other ... well I'm not really sure what that affects.

I'm not comfortable telling a player they can't use black sock tape on blue socks while on the other team there are four players with socks that don't match at all. And if I tell *them* they can't play we don't have a game. I don't think either team would agree that I am "doing the job they pay me to do" if I said the match could not go ahead because their socks don't match.

What I actually do is tell the players concerned that their sock tape is illegal, I'll let it slide, but that next week's ref would be perfectly entitled to tell them they can't use it.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#59
To make it easier for us to decide which side of the argument to stand on, our state body has released a circular to allow players to play if their sock tape/strap is a different colour. Similar with undershirts and undershirts. This applies only at grassroots.
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#60
My point (about different socks/ sock tape etc.) was that right down at the very bottom of the football pyramid- that my veterans team inhabit- was that if we were to encounter a ref saying we couldn’t play because of wrong colour tape or socks or whatever is that we’d just pack it all in and that would be another twenty or so players not on the County FA books as active participants in the game, which, I’m sure, would dent someone’s metric and target.

Yes, I could go out and buy some tape, and possibly a whole set of matching socks as well, but it’s enough of an effort to get 11+ players out on a Sunday morning. If it all gets too faffy, pedantic and difficult it just ain’t going to happen. At our level, it’s supposedto be about fun, when the fun stops, we stop.
 
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