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Nor v Man City - VAR?

one

RefChat Addict
#42
Of course he can and we all do at times, but that is still before he makes the decision.
Not necessarily. When an AR, AAR signals for a foul, it's often after the referee has made a no foul decision. But generally goes with AR because of a more credible vision (angle, distance). But from time to time waves him/her down. Not too different to a VAR but a different process.
 
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#44
Not necessarily. When an AR, AAR signals for a foul, it's often after the referee has made a no foul decision. But generally goes with AR because of a more credible vision (angle, distance). But from time to time waves him/her down. Not too different to a VAR but a different process.
The AR should be flagging at the same time as the ref is making his no call, at the very latest, it should be as soon as he sees a foul, which then allows the referee the option of blowing or playing advantage. Any AR that flags after the ref has made his decision is asking for trouple.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#46
The AR should be flagging at the same time as the ref is making his no call,
This doesn't make sense to me. A no call doesn't have a 'time'. Do you mean when the ref decides it is not a foul? How does the AR know this?

at the very latest, it should be as soon as he sees a foul,
You find most referees instruct against this. The most common instruction is 'give me first crack at it.' AR's don't referee the game. They assist. They should not get involved when no assistance is required.

Any AR that flags after the ref has made his decision is asking for trouple.
So the referee sees an incident and makes no call (not because he hasn't made a decision but because he thinks it's not a foul). It is a clear and obvious foul. Which is more trouble, flag or no flag? Trouble aside, which is the fair and correct decision?

My instructions to my AR's is, if I have made a clear and obvious error, flag it. Even for a penalty (MUST be C&O). Let me deal with selling it (which should be easy). Saving face is second priority to a correct decision.
 

bloovee

RefChat Addict
#53
Currently VAR isn't overruling the referee because the only other option is to undermine the referee. The way the PGMOL are using VAR they have to just support the onfield referee's decision if it is subjective, even if there is a clear and obvious error. As soon as VAR overturns an onfield referee's subjective decision we have the situation I have stated above, where VAR has the final say.

For a subjective decision to be overturned then the onfield referee HAS to make that decision after reviewing it on a monitor.
Which in his case, he has not got.

Or does he?
 
#54
This doesn't make sense to me. A no call doesn't have a 'time'. Do you mean when the ref decides it is not a foul? How does the AR know this?


You find most referees instruct against this. The most common instruction is 'give me first crack at it.' AR's don't referee the game. They assist. They should not get involved when no assistance is required.
It depends on the pre match instructions given but generally a flag from the assistant at the same time as the whistle from the ref (half a second behind the whistle is close enough) helps sell a decision, or maybe the ref has said that fouls in your area are down to you so they are expecting your flag. With experience you can normally tell if the referee is going to give the foul, or not, from his body language anyway. A shout of 'no' from the referee or his arms waving the incident away is a pretty big clue that he has decided it is not a foul.

So the referee sees an incident and makes no call (not because he hasn't made a decision but because he thinks it's not a foul). It is a clear and obvious foul. Which is more trouble, flag or no flag? Trouble aside, which is the fair and correct decision?

My instructions to my AR's is, if I have made a clear and obvious error, flag it. Even for a penalty (MUST be C&O). Let me deal with selling it (which should be easy). Saving face is second priority to a correct decision.
Clear and obvious to you but he may disagree. Again it depends on instructions, but it would have to be more than just clear and obvious for me to flag and I would be flagging immediately. If it is a subjective call and the ref can see it I keep my flag down, even if I disagree. I would only flag if I could see something from my angle that I know he couldn't from his. The ref can then:-

1. stop play to come and speak to me if he wishes
2. stop play and go with my flag or
3. wave me down and rip me to pieces later.

I would not be waiting more than 1 or 2 seconds to flag as everybody has moved on by then.

Which in his case, he has not got.

Or does he?
PGMOL won't let the refs use them, which is why there is such a problem with subjective calls.
 
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