A&H

Substitutions

WalterPinkman

WalterPinkman

Active Member
Hello,

Sorry if this sounds a bit stupid. I am a new referee about to do my 5 games for the course and I never really understood the substitution procedure and I still am not sure even through checking the LOTG book. I just wondered if when you stop play for a substitution, you go to the touchline to check the substitutions equipment, etc. or if you wave them on from the centre of the field.

Thanks very much:)
 
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if you are own your own, which you mostly will be you go over check studs and no jewellery, doing it from the centre circle is just plain lazy, and an assessor wont be happy. the only stupid question is the one you are afraid to ask, there are a lot of referees on here happy to help with advice, good luck with your refereeing
 
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jofusref said:
if you are own your own, which you mostly will be you go over check studs and no jewellery, doing it from the centre circle is just plain lazy, and an assessor wont be happy. the only stupid question is the one you are afraid to ask, there are a lot of referees on here happy to help with advice, good luck with your refereeing
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Thank You
 
me personally, I do a complete kit/boot/jewellery check before the game for everyone (or I'm super lazy and get my assistants too if in a team of 3) that way its done and i don't have to go from my position on the field to the touchline and check.

when the sub is made, I take a quick note of the leaving players number and always call the sub over to me with a quick (yes please player) ask the number, note it down and play on (noting it down after gives the player 2 seconds to get into his position (also gives me a couple minutes breather!!))

hope that helps you
 
Charlie Jones said:
me personally, I do a complete kit/boot/jewellery check before the game for everyone (or I'm super lazy and get my assistants too if in a team of 3) that way its done and i don't have to go from my position on the field to the touchline and check.

when the sub is made, I take a quick note of the leaving players number and always call the sub over to me with a quick (yes please player) ask the number, note it down and play on (noting it down after gives the player 2 seconds to get into his position (also gives me a couple minutes breather!!))

hope that helps you
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so if a player loses a stud, puts jewellery back on, or takes his shin guard off after you have done your prematch check you dont bother
 
I like to live dangerously ...

in all seriousness ...

a player can loose a stud soon as he walks on AFTER I've checked them at the sub ... checking them once is fine, but just so you know i do also make him give a quick flick of the boots as he walks away

tell me why any player would go to the arse ache of going back to their bag, changing room etc. to put back a piece of jewelry?

if you cannot tell a player has/hasn't got shinguards on under socks then i fear you made need my glasses more than i do
 
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Charlie Jones said:
me personally, I do a complete kit/boot/jewellery check before the game for everyone (or I'm super lazy and get my assistants too if in a team of 3) that way its done and i don't have to go from my position on the field to the touchline and check.

when the sub is made, I take a quick note of the leaving players number and always call the sub over to me with a quick (yes please player) ask the number, note it down and play on (noting it down after gives the player 2 seconds to get into his position (also gives me a couple minutes breather!!))

hope that helps you
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I find myself a bit torn on this topic. On the one hand Charlie, what you've described is eminently pragmatic, sensible and in tune with what players at grass roots will be happy with. On the other, you consciously changing the 'proper' substitution procedure by not going to the halfway / touchline to do the checks etc makes life much harder for all subsequent refs of these teams. They might comes across as over officious or petty when all they're trying to do is enforce the LOTG. And if they're going for promotion, they have no option but to follow the correct procedure every time unless of course they're happy to be marked down ...!
 
where exactly does it state that the referee must go to the half way line to check the kit of the player coming on?
 
Oh god, this is now a rehash of a debate I had with @CapnBloodbeard a while back :rolleyes:.

Page 70 mate, towards the bottom. "Players are to be inspected before the match begins and substitutes before they enter the FOP". Captain was claiming that you could 'inspect' someone from 50 yards away (slightly tongue in cheek I think!) .. in reality the intent of the wording is clear and that's why you see assistants / fourth officials routinely checking subs equipment just prior to them coming on. More annoying when you're a ref on your own but c'est la vie
 
right, but does it say that they have to be inspected JUST as they are about to come on?

in the substitute procedure section, there is nothing about going and checking the kit of the player coming on

there fore you can surmise that it is ok to do as i do, as the kit as previously been checked
 
If substitutes were no different to other players and the 'before' piece related to before the game then there would be no need for the additional clause about subs in the sentence I bolded. Nor would you see subs being checked immediately prior to coming on in EVERY televised game. Nor would assessors be picking up promotion candidates for failing to do this.

Look, I know it's an arse and I know it winds up grassroots players who just want to get on with the game. But it's down there in black and white in the LOTG so if we don't do it, let's just accept that we're knowingly breaking the LOTG rather than deluding ourselves :)
 
Russell Jones said:
Oh god, this is now a rehash of a debate I had with @CapnBloodbeard a while back :rolleyes:.

Page 70 mate, towards the bottom. "Players are to be inspected before the match begins and substitutes before they enter the FOP". Captain was claiming that you could 'inspect' someone from 50 yards away (slightly tongue in cheek I think!) .. in reality the intent of the wording is clear and that's why you see assistants / fourth officials routinely checking subs equipment just prior to them coming on. More annoying when you're a ref on your own but c'est la vie
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And I don't think the intent of the law is to add another 15 minutes onto a match because the teams are having 20 subs.
The LOTG don't state you have to inspect them from 30cm away - that's an interpretation. Practical concerns also need to be considered - and any referee knows when the laws can be bent or stretched. Waving the sub on from halfway isn't contravening the above law - sure, the intention may be for the referee to go over to the sub, but is that intention considering the reality of a local match with up to 30 interchanges? I doubt that. Even the intent of the law can be contextual.
Also, if you've inspected the subs with the team inspection, then you have inspected them before they've entered the FOP, haven't you?

If your local area tells you that you must attend each interchange/rolling sub, or you know your local inspectors make a fuss over it, then fair enough - you're stuck. But if it doesn't, you're just wasting everybody's time and looking like a pedant. Just get on with the game.
For games with limited substitutions? Yes, go over to the location, because the impact upon the flow of the match will be minimal due to the limited numbers.

It's not black and white - you're drawing an interpretation to attend them at halfway.
 
The good news is that in a world where rolling subs are now becoming increasingly common at lower levels, there's recently been local clarification that substitutes only need to be properly inspected the first time they come onto the pitch. Which is a relief! So Captain, think you and I are agreed that this is now manageable and should be properly enforced? Because, as above, before means immediately prior (otherwise no point breaking it out separately in the sentence) and properly inspecting from the middle of the pitch just isn't realistic ... if you can truly spot a stud earring from there you're a better man than I! :)
 
I got marked down on my most recent assessment for not inspecting two of the substitutes before they actually set foot on the pitch. One of them was 5 yards on (I beckoned him on) and the other came on about 5 seconds before the other player had left the FOP (and wasn't exactly at the halfway line). In both cases I was on the other side of the pitch (and knackered) when the sub call was made.

To be blunt, the assessor didn't care. Halfway line and inspect before they enter the FOP. One off, one on. Cost me 2 marks that did.

So last week, benches literally 50 yards apart, I made each of the six subs come on and off at the halfway line, and not before the substituted player had left. What a ballache, and the players and some of the crowd had a massive moan up when I made one of the subs go off and come back on again. Felt like a right officious so and so, but them's the rules.
 
exactly why rolling subs are a nonsense, a new referee asked for proper advice i gave it to him if referees are too lazty to do the substitute procedure properly doesnt mean a newly qualified referee cant be given proper adviced
 
i feel I'm with @CapnBloodbeard on this one - and id argue like heck with an assessor ... get the LOTG out now, flick to sub procedure and read aloud from the top please Mr Assessor ...

oh, there isn't anything there that says i MUST meet them at the halfway line and check kit? it only says i have to before they come onto the FOP? and i did this prior to the match? :eek::eek::eek: ill have that point added back thanks chief ;)
 
Charlie Jones said:
and id argue like heck with an assessor ... get the LOTG out now, flick to sub procedure and read aloud from the top please Mr Assessor ...
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:ninja: indeed :). Now there's one argument I'd pay good money to watch :)))

But seriously Charlie ... there's one overall LOTG that is (or at least should be) consistently applied at all levels of football. Where things are to be flexed by level, like colour of Referee Kit or Rolling Subs, this is clearly stated. We all see how the substitutes' kit check works in practice in games where officials have been well drilled in the LOTG .. it's ALWAYS just prior to coming on.

You may well argue that it's unreasonable / unworkable to do this when working on your own rather than in a team of three or four .. and I may well have some sympathy with that POV as I would with sock tape etc. BUT, until or unless things change, you doing what you're doing with substitutions simply undermines refs that follow you with those teams and makes their life harder in properly applying the Laws. Which is of course your prerogative ..
 
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