A&H

Tottenham - Chelsea

DJIC said:
Is there a way of continuing the match while a player is receiving treatment, in certain neutral areas of the pitch, aka rugby? Newcastle had a player, Guimaraes I think, he was injured rolled off the pitch then more rolls later was back on the pitch. His side were losing 2-0, so just a given players expect the game to be stopped for all players to receive treatment.
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Players can leave the field during active play with the Rs permission to receive treatment. They don't want to do that, as they'd usually rather get play stopped.
 
The Referee Store
RustyRef said:
I think they have made a bit of a mess of the protocol. It looks like Attwell has effectively asked for help in identifying who the offender was, which makes it a referee initiated review, which is allowed if the referee believes that something serious has been missed. The VAR then describes to the referee what he has seen and the referee can either show the TV signal and go for a look, or make a final decision based on the information from the VAR.

I've highlighted the word final as he didn't make a TV signal initially before showing the red card, so it has to be that second possibility, and that is clear that this is a final decision. It can't be a final decision if you then go and have a look at the screen and change your mind. What we think has happened is ...

- on-pitch officials see what they believe was VC but don't get the offender
- referee asks VAR to identifier offender
- VAR give Ziyech's number
- Attwell shows the red card
- VAR recommend a review as they don't feel it was VC
- Attwell watches footage and downgrades to caution

As far as I can see only two outcomes are supportable.
  • No card is given in which case VAR review to see if there has been a clear and obvious error
  • Red or yellow card is given to who they think it was and VAR review to see if there has been a clear and obvious error. This could result in ...
    • review being recommended due to colour of card being viewed as a clear and obvious error
    • VAR can advise the referee that the card was correct but issued to the wrong player, in which case it is switched to the correct player. No need for an on-pitch review for this. VAR can only check for mistaken identity after a card has been shown.
The relevant part of law that I think supports this is below.

View attachment 6395
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Doesn't "initiate a review for a potential error" imply that the referee can ask for a review to avoid making an error, rather than making a guess about a missed incident and make the error? Otherwise the word "potential" is redundant.

And that just adds to time wasted.
 
bloovee said:
Doesn't "initiate a review for a potential error" imply that the referee can ask for a review to avoid making an error, rather than making a guess about a missed incident and make the error? Otherwise the word "potential" is redundant.

And that just adds to time wasted.
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It’s not a missed incident if he saw it and isn’t sure who to give the card to. I don’t think the protocols, as written, permit the R to say “I have a card on the guy who did xyz, but I don’t know who it was.” But if that’s what happened, I’m not very troubled by the protocol breach, as it would be kinda pointless to just guess.
 
socal lurker said:
It’s not a missed incident if he saw it and isn’t sure who to give the card to. I don’t think the protocols, as written, permit the R to say “I have a card on the guy who did xyz, but I don’t know who it was.” But if that’s what happened, I’m not very troubled by the protocol breach, as it would be kinda pointless to just guess.
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I'm troubled by any suggestion that to meet a protocol designed to correct mistakes, you have to make a mistake first, rather than use VAR to get it right in the first place. It's not like deciding on a foul where the decision has to be made in a moment.

If after a mass confrontation the referee wants to consult ARs (or the fourth official) before handing out cards, why not consult the VAR?
 
bloovee said:
I'm troubled by any suggestion that to meet a protocol designed to correct mistakes, you have to make a mistake first, rather than use VAR to get it right in the first place. It's not like deciding on a foul where the decision has to be made in a moment.

If after a mass confrontation the referee wants to consult ARs (or the fourth official) before handing out cards, why not consult the VAR?
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That would change what VAR is intended for. The VAR is there to help the referee correct clear and obvious errors. It certainly could be changed to be a broader tool for mass confrontation, but that is no what it has been designed for.
 
bloovee said:
I'm troubled by any suggestion that to meet a protocol designed to correct mistakes, you have to make a mistake first, rather than use VAR to get it right in the first place. It's not like deciding on a foul where the decision has to be made in a moment.

If after a mass confrontation the referee wants to consult ARs (or the fourth official) before handing out cards, why not consult the VAR?
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Because VAR isn't there as an aide to the referee, it is there to correct clear and obvious mistakes made by the match officials, it can't do that until a decision has actually been made. If you allow the referee to ask VAR for the identity of a player before issuing them a card, do you then ask them to check whether it should be a corner or goal kick?
 
RustyRef said:
Because VAR isn't there as an aide to the referee, it is there to correct clear and obvious mistakes made by the match officials, it can't do that until a decision has actually been made. If you allow the referee to ask VAR for the identity of a player before issuing them a card, do you then ask them to check whether it should be a corner or goal kick?
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Aid? Assistant? Synonyms. I'd have thought you could write the protocol to have the video assistant referee doing whatever you want to assist a referee who doesn't want to look like a pillock, without re-refereeing micro decisions. (Including giving obvious goals when GLT fails.)
 
bloovee said:
Aid? Assistant? Synonyms. I'd have thought you could write the protocol to have the video assistant referee doing whatever you want to assist a referee who doesn't want to look like a pillock, without re-refereeing micro decisions. (Including giving obvious goals when GLT fails.)
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But they didn't, and I would argue that was the right decision. It shouldn't be a comfort blanket for referees, it should be a way of correcting very clear errors.
 
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