Open Age Warnings before issuing a sin bin

[Mada]

I had a situation yesterday which hit my match control slightly. I'd pulled the away captain in on 2 occasions along with a player to warn him that the actions of his players were unacceptable and they are risking a sin bin. Both of these players screamed at me (separately, 10-15 mins apart) when I didn't give a decision to their team. No swearing, no abuse, just loudly questioning my decision telling me I had got it wrong from a distance.

5 minutes before half time I didn't give a penalty for the home team. The player who thought he was fouled got up and did the same as the away players. I put him in the sin bin.

The home manager told me at half time (respectfully may I add) that he was unhappy the away team had 2 warnings but his team went down to 10 men for 10 minutes on the first occurrence. I explained that I needed to draw a line and surely his player should have seen the 2 warnings previously and took that on board. The manager disagreed.

There are 2 ways of looking at this:

1) The previous 2 public warnings serves as a warning for all players on the pitch (my line of thought)
2) It's unfair to provide 2 warnings to 1 team and not afford the same to the other team

I can see both sides. I walked out with the manager for the 2nd half and told him that upon reflection I understand where he is coming from but hopefully he could also see my thinking behind the decision. We agreed to disagree.

Luckily him being off the pitch didn't really change the game as there were few chances and the match finished 0-0. There was no a single act of dissent throughout the second half after the sin bin so I'd argue it was effective.

Thoughts?

 

[Kent Ref]

I had a situation yesterday which hit my match control slightly. I'd pulled the away captain in on 2 occasions along with a player to warn him that the actions of his players were unacceptable and they are risking a sin bin. Both of these players screamed at me (separately, 10-15 mins apart) when I didn't give a decision to their team. No swearing, no abuse, just loudly questioning my decision telling me I had got it wrong from a distance.

5 minutes before half time I didn't give a penalty for the home team. The player who thought he was fouled got up and did the same as the away players. I put him in the sin bin.

The home manager told me at half time (respectfully may I add) that he was unhappy the away team had 2 warnings but his team went down to 10 men for 10 minutes on the first occurrence. I explained that I needed to draw a line and surely his player should have seen the 2 warnings previously and took that on board. The manager disagreed.

There are 2 ways of looking at this:

1) The previous 2 public warnings serves as a warning for all players on the pitch (my line of thought)
2) It's unfair to provide 2 warnings to 1 team and not afford the same to the other team

I can see both sides. I walked out with the manager for the 2nd half and told him that upon reflection I understand where he is coming from but hopefully he could also see my thinking behind the decision. We agreed to disagree.

Luckily him being off the pitch didn't really change the game as there were few chances and the match finished 0-0. There was no a single act of dissent throughout the second half after the sin bin so I'd argue it was effective.

Thoughts?

When i ref if i give a public warning to team A i would also give a public warning to team B (if they do the same thing).

That way both teams have been given the same treatment.

Giving team A two warnings with no sanction but going straight to a sanction for team B seems unfair.

 

[Joshref]

I can see your argument but I respectfully disagree.

Say Team A keep making a lot of fouls. You warn Team A captain that if the fouls continue there’s gonna be a yellow come out. Team B makes his first foul, and despite it being the same as the others, a yellow comes out. Can you see why this is a problem?

The comparisons are different but the overall message is the same. Im not sure why you chose to do what you did. If the away players (you mentioned home player did exactly same as them) weren’t enough for you to sin bin, why was the home player enough?

What did you say in your warning? If you said “next time someone says that they’re in the bin” or something like that then slightly different story. However, here you’re seriously risking your match control as it looks rather obvious to the home manager that you’re treating his team unfairly.

Luckily it seems you had no problems though and your match went fine

 

[Big Cat]

I had a situation yesterday which hit my match control slightly. I'd pulled the away captain in on 2 occasions along with a player to warn him that the actions of his players were unacceptable and they are risking a sin bin. Both of these players screamed at me (separately, 10-15 mins apart) when I didn't give a decision to their team. No swearing, no abuse, just loudly questioning my decision telling me I had got it wrong from a distance.

5 minutes before half time I didn't give a penalty for the home team. The player who thought he was fouled got up and did the same as the away players. I put him in the sin bin.

The home manager told me at half time (respectfully may I add) that he was unhappy the away team had 2 warnings but his team went down to 10 men for 10 minutes on the first occurrence. I explained that I needed to draw a line and surely his player should have seen the 2 warnings previously and took that on board. The manager disagreed.

There are 2 ways of looking at this:

1) The previous 2 public warnings serves as a warning for all players on the pitch (my line of thought)
2) It's unfair to provide 2 warnings to 1 team and not afford the same to the other team

I can see both sides. I walked out with the manager for the 2nd half and told him that upon reflection I understand where he is coming from but hopefully he could also see my thinking behind the decision. We agreed to disagree.

Luckily him being off the pitch didn't really change the game as there were few chances and the match finished 0-0. There was no a single act of dissent throughout the second half after the sin bin so I'd argue it was effective.

Thoughts?

Two warnings for the same team is one warning too many
You ought to afford both teams the same level of warning for equivalent misconduct

 

[one]

I also disagree with how you managed the warning concept. Don't take this as negative criticism. If you are going to have a line to draw, draw it somewhere which is fair to both teams. Even though dissent is my pet hate, I'd say it fair for the home team to assume hey the other team got two warnings so far without a card, surely we are going to get the same chance.

For me the second warning should have been a sin bin.

Luckily him being off the pitch didn't really change the game as there were few chances and the match finished 0-0.

Also disagree with this. You never know if the home team were impacted by not being able to score a goal during that 10 minutes due to being a player down.

 

[Joshref]

Never seen on here the phrasing of “luckily the decision never made a difference” followed by “game finished 0-0“ before. Normally people only say this when its a battering!

But yeh, from my opinion, it seems you were too lenient with the away team and too harsh with home team. Seems you were working on a 3 strikes and you’re out perspective, but for both teams. If I were home manager I’d probs feel aggrieved. But we move forward, we learn and we keep going.

 

[Mada]

Thanks everyone, appreciate your input. I got that one wrong on reflection. I should have issued the sin bin after the 2nd warning which would have avoided the situation entirely. The 2nd warning was to the goalkeeper as well so that would have sent a message.

Other than that I thought I had a decent game. I’ll put it down to a poor 5 minute period just before half time.

 

[Big Cat]

Thanks everyone, appreciate your input. I got that one wrong on reflection. I should have issued the sin bin after the 2nd warning which would have avoided the situation entirely. The 2nd warning was to the goalkeeper as well so that would have sent a message.

Other than that I thought I had a decent game. I’ll put it down to a poor 5 minute period just before half time.

Also, when using the Stepped Approach, you should make it clear that the warning is being issued to the 'side' of the player. Admittedly, your tolerance of dissent from that player will be less than the rest of his side following the warning. But point being, the Captain only gets one opportunity to show leadership with his side. The impact of the public warning will be lost if the Referee repeats the process with the same skipper
So the warning to the Captain needs to be as 'public' as possible, because there's no second chance for them. Timing of the 'Stepped Approach' and the 'Sin Bin' itself is obviously key. I had a game a few weeks back in which the my warning was well timed, but the subsequent sin bin came 10 minutes later than it should have. I'm more irritated by being undermined than I am 'heat of the moment' reactions

All that said, whilst the warned player may get the message, it's very rare that you'll see a Captain pro-actively respond to his/her duties. The warning merely serves as a process to 'setup' an imminent sin bin so that it doesn't come as a surprise