A&H

Well - what a breath of fresh air!

The Zebra

The Zebra

BAFRA Member #217
Had my first game as an official in another sport yesterday - with a pre-season friendly between the Birmingham Bulls and the Coventry Jets (this is American Football btw).

First of all - there were 5 of us appointed to officiate the game - each with their own particular role. I was tasked with "Line Judge" duties. Basically I was functioning in much the same way as an Assistant Referee - on the one touchline to watch for offsides, the ball out of play and if a catch was successfully made.
The support I got from the other officials was superb, definitely put the nerves at rest pre-match.

I got not one single dissenting comment from a player or coach - or any abuse of any type from them or the crowd - an extremely weird feeling!

And when one of the coaches wanted to query something that had happened on the field of play - we stopped the clock (as we are allowed to) - asked the coach to enter the field of play to discuss the actual call with 4 of the 5 of us in attendance. Once explained to him totally, he accepted the decision as made, thanked us and then left the pitch without any further questions - all of this exchange was conducted in an entirely adult and civil manner.

The communication and back-and-forth with the bench behind me was as I remembered it from the old days - and a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon.

I did however make one mistake - throwing a flag for a defender going offside as the game restarted and blowing the whistle at the same time to stop the game to enforce the penalty against the defence. I should have waited to see what the result of the play was before we gave the decision...
 
The Referee Store
Great post :)

I watch a lot of the NFL on tv and at Wembley when it comes over - love it

I really like the "throw the flag, see what happens, discuss it, bring it back if necessary if penalty is declined" approach

Never really understand though where some plays are blown dead for offside or player in the neutral zone or encroachment or unabated to the QB ...
 
I agree whole heartedly about the "get together and discuss things through" - as I had a similar situation with a fumble recovery and interception play right on my sideline. The Umpire came across to my position right on top of the massive pile of players - and I had to calmly and clearly answer two questions. "Was the knee of the ball carrying player down before the ball came loose?", "Did the ball go out of bounds before a player from either side recovered it."

I clearly explaned that - "No, the knee was not down and the ball had gone out of bounds before it was recovered" - which resulted in the home team retaining possession of the ball.

The Umpire at half time said my explanation and thought process was excellent and that my prior experience of refereeing showed.

Walking back up the sideline - the photographer sat nearby confirmed that I had gotten the decision 100% correct

The unabated to the QB would be on safety grounds - he wouldn't be expecting a rampaging lineman to be heading his way and would be considered Defenceless.

With the defensive Neutral zone infractions - these are (well should have been in my case!) let the play go as it gives an advantage to the attacking side as they then get the "free play" - the other way around, there wouldn't be an advantage to the defence at all...
 
Good explanation - thanks - I must be thinking of Offensive offside - guess there isn't much chance of a turnover so right to blow it dead early

Right to be think safety first - "defenceless receiver" took a bit of understanding until I saw some of the hits they can get - especially helmet first
 
Nice work @The Zebra

I've become a big follower of the NFL the past few seasons. Although, maybe staying up to watch the Super Bowl wasn't the best idea I've ever had!
 
Never heard a word said to a referee back when I played the sport.
But then why would I? Name one other sport where it has become acceptable to verbally abuse officials?
We as refs are 100% to blame. The ones at the lower levels that are too cowardly to take action and the ones at the upper level that have sold their integrity and allow the Premier League to tell them which laws to ignore.
 
deusex said:
Never heard a word said to a referee back when I played the sport.
But then why would I? Name one other sport where it has become acceptable to verbally abuse officials?
We as refs are 100% to blame. The ones at the lower levels that are too cowardly to take action and the ones at the upper level that have sold their integrity and allow the Premier League to tell them which laws to ignore.
Click to expand...
Rather a generalisation about lower league referees i fear ?
 
Beezer said:
Rather a generalisation about lower league referees i fear ?
Click to expand...

Well I guess I can only speak for those in my county, but I think it a reasonable assumption this is a UK wide problem.
I'd say less than half the L7-5 refs in my county are doing their job (just from what I've seen on pitches next to me and refs I've assessed). Also the appalling behaviour by some teams makes it clear they've been doing whatever they like all season.
 
Back to point you have also covered in your post above about certain behaviour being more acceptable as part of the game the higher up the leagues you go !

This is where the game of football falls flat on its face !

We cant blame young lads / ladies in thier first couple of seasons with very little confidence or experience for bottling the odd decision when there are at least 10 hungover idiots running around a field kiccking lumps out of each other and having a swear up ,when the main men on £100 000 a year just let dissent and OFFINABUS slide because its accepted at high levels ?

If its good to at the top it will always happen at the bottom , i will never change my opinion on this !
 
deusex said:
Never heard a word said to a referee back when I played the sport.
The ones at the lower levels that are too cowardly to take action and the ones at the upper level that have sold their integrity and allow the Premier League to tell them which laws to ignore.
Click to expand...

I suspect the UK is the same as Norway, but as you progress up the ladder, you are not expected to dish out the cards for dissent. You are expected to "manage it". Too many yellows for dissent seem to imply that you are not able to manage a game.
 
I think you're spot on Morten. It's a subtle point, because I think that ideally the best referees do manage dissent and that should be encouraged. However, it doesn't always follow that if a card is needed that is because the referee has 'failed' to manage it - the cards are part of the management process after all.
 
Martiju said:
I think you're spot on Morten. It's a subtle point, because I think that ideally the best referees do manage dissent and that should be encouraged. However, it doesn't always follow that if a card is needed that is because the referee has 'failed' to manage it - the cards are part of the management process after all.
Click to expand...

For me, this one of the areas of my game where I am still trying to find the perfect mix. The fact of the matter is that it will vary from game to game, depending on the players. What I preach to my assistant, and to myself, is that when I show a YC I want it to have an affect. Wether that is to state "that tackle is over the line" or "that sort of language is over the line". The former is easier to sell than the latter, as a tackle is something everyone can see, while dissent must be quite exaggerated for everyone to see (and understand) it.

This is how I _try_ to manage dissent:
In the center circle, before the coin flip I talk to the captains. I tell them that I can accept the occasional spontaneous outburst, however there are some words and sentiments that are unacceptable no matter how spontaneous they are. Then I tell them that I will issue maximum one public warning for dissent to each team, then I will follow up with YCs. It won't feel good for me, nor them, but it is a battle I will win. If at some point I feel that there has been enough chatter about the referees, I will tell them (the captains) during the game and I expect them to discipline their team, or YCs will soon follow.

If you are lucky, the captains are nice chaps both before and during the game. This works pretty well. However, some captains are just really not the most pleasent people, and can't be talked to. Then I stop trying to manage it, and just YC when I feel someone steps over the line.

I had a match 2 weeks ago, one of the teams were a newly promoted one. They were not used to the level of refereeing at their new level. The kept moaning, wanting free kicks whenever they were touched. After about 50 minutes I told the captain, "I've had enough of the moaning now, I'll start issuing YCs, let your team know". To be fair, he did let the team now, but it didn't help. 5 minutes later, the goalkeeper fumbles when going for a cross. The ball eventually goes out for a goal kick. As you'd expect, the keeper still feels the need to blame someone for his less than ideal performance and very publicly shouts at me for not being given a free kick. At which point it is very easy to blow my whistle, run in and issue the first YC. My assistant was pleased and the assessor was pleased. It helped settle things down. I had to issue one more, at which point even the coach understood and told his player "you are not getting this because what you said was outrageous, but because we've been moaning all game, and he's had enough". (Wow, he understood how I felt!)
 
:)
Russell Jones said:
Well sa

Well said that man, the perfect one line summary :)
Click to expand...
So gents doesnt what constitutes dissent depend on the individual referee ? And the temprature of the game and so on ?

We all draw the line at different points , so its all open to personal opinion and interpretation of situations and a fair amount of man managment
:)
 
Beezer said:
:)
So gents doesnt what constitutes dissent depend on the individual referee ? And the temprature of the game and so on ?

We all draw the line at different points , so its all open to personal opinion and interpretation of situations and a fair amount of man managment
:)
Click to expand...

80% of dissent-like incidents are dissent. 20% can be dissent depending on the match, temp etc.
The 20% is not a big deal.
If we as referee all cautioned (not "managed") the 80% we'd transform football (but we don't, and we won't)
IMO we also, as referees, overtstate the importance of man managing at parks level.
A referee that gets most deicisions right, issues cautions for dissent and never speaks to players unless he is cautioning them is doing a much better job than the referee taking sh*t for 90 mins and coming of the pitch thinking he's a great man manager (he's not).
 
I agree completely with the taking s..t side of things , but i still think in a game of football if a referee can display a competent level of civility , respect and rapport with players early on in a game you get it back for 90 minutes ?

Not saying it always works out that way but neither does walking out on pitch never smilng or comunicating and just flashin cards around

Imo im pretty good at the man managment side of the game but not bothered about administering cards if required

All about striking a balance that works for your own personality IMO ?

But its all about opinoins and i respect everone else s views on the subject ;)
 
Wow, I think I agree with both of you ... not like me to get splinters from sitting on the fence :).

Overall though, the fact that @Beezer we 'all draw the line at different points' can't be helpful from the point of view of consistency and players knowing wjat's acceptable and what's not. We'll never get to 100% consistent but a shift from 50% to 90% would be nice ...
 
Back on towards topic...having been involved in BAFANL Snr & Jnr for two seasons (up until when I left England to head Stateside), the respect for officials is brilliant. But, the officials themselves help create that by being willing to listen to questions and explain properly. Too many times, I've seen referees (football) either refuse to answer a player on FOP or straight up caution as if it's dissent! It's a two way thing guys, don't think it's JUST players/managers!

In terms of BAFANL/BAFA, the league(s) are improving at a serious rate! The quality on show is often very good, with the games all played in the right spirit and within a good atmosphere
Damn, I miss it! I want to have those pads back on and smash a LB whilst lead-blocking...or pull out a worldie catch at 3rd & long!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top