West Ham v City

[alexgr]

Neil Swarbrick having an odd game. West Ham awarded a free kick outside the box when it was clearly a couple of yards inside the box, should have had a penalty.

Arnautovic goal ruled out for a supposed foul on Ederson (seemed perfectly fine).

Sterling not awarded a penalty for a clear foul that swept both his feet away. Free kick given AGAINST Sterling but not cautioned for simulation?

Odd performance so far, one thing that has been disappointing is that Swarbrick always seem to be a good 20/30 yards behind play. Not in view during all of the above incidents. Poor on the whole.

 

[Big Cat]

Didn't see today's game, Bit surprised by comments however, because i rate Swarbrick as one of the better PL referees

 

[Ben448844]

He seemed to look to his AR for every decision in the box which seemed a little odd to me. Perhaps they discussed such a plan before the game started? The AR got 3 or 4 of the big calls wrong , just one of them days I think.

 

[RobOda]

Sterling not awarded a penalty for a clear foul that swept both his feet away. Free kick given AGAINST Sterling but not cautioned for simulation?

I just finally saw a clip of that. Seems the AR flagged for handball by Sterling from when he lands (or the referee has given it for handball and the AR followed up with the flag) - The replay looks like Swarbrick looks over to the AR before hitting the whistle anyway.

Looked a clear penalty though.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

If City don't win 9-0, do they still get mardi and phone up the FA and demand heads roll?

 

[Tealeaf]

West Ham penalty: Understandable mistake given where he ended up but error nevertheless. It worked out OK in the end, with a superb free kick finish.

Arnautovic foul: We've a similar thread on challenging goalkeepers, and this was a charge. Foul correct for me.

Sterling trip: This moment was always going to come. It's a trip and therefore a penalty. No argument on that point, BUT - it's the boy who cried wolf, karma, fate catching up, call it what you will. There have been several occasions where he's dived or gone down early (last week a prime example, and he got the penalty then) and it's going to put doubt in the minds of all but the most die-hard City fans. That's exactly what happened here. Doesn't make it right but I'm short on sympathy for him personally.

 

[Ben448844]

West Ham penalty: Understandable mistake given where he ended up but error nevertheless. It worked out OK in the end, with a superb free kick finish.

Arnautovic foul: We've a similar thread on challenging goalkeepers, and this was a charge. Foul correct for me.

Sterling trip: This moment was always going to come. It's a trip and therefore a penalty. No argument on that point, BUT - it's the boy who cried wolf, karma, fate catching up, call it what you will. There have been several occasions where he's dived or gone down early (last week a prime example, and he got the penalty then) and it's going to put doubt in the minds of all but the most die-hard City fans. That's exactly what happened here. Doesn't make it right but I'm short on sympathy for him personally.

As a life long, die hard but relatively objective city fan, I'm not sure I agree. I doubt there's a player who gets so few fouls awarded to him than Sterling. I definitely agree that he does go down too easily but he's no better or worse than anybody else, including other city players.

I actually believe that defenders are now worse than the attackers for simulation. They feel the slightest touch when they're facing their own goal line and down they go and always get the free kick awarded. In the Madrid v Bayern game midweek, I saw 2 Madrid defenders actively throwing themselves into the attackers and then falling over and both times free kicks were awarded. The officials know that there hasn't been a foul committed but also know that if they don't give a foul then the attacking team are through on goal so always give the foul.

For balance, Otamendi is one of the worst for doing this.

 

[Ben448844]

As a life long, die hard but relatively objective city fan, I'm not sure I agree. I doubt there's a player who gets so few fouls awarded to him than Sterling. I definitely agree that he does go down too easily but he's no better or worse than anybody else, including other city players.

I actually believe that defenders are now worse than the attackers for simulation. They feel the slightest touch when they're facing their own goal line and down they go and always get the free kick awarded. In the Madrid v Bayern game midweek, I saw 2 Madrid defenders actively throwing themselves into the attackers and then falling over and both times free kicks were awarded. The officials know that there hasn't been a foul committed but also know that if they don't give a foul then the attacking team are through on goal so always give the foul.

For balance, Otamendi is one of the worst for doing this.

To further the point and perhaps move the debate on, this is a common situation where 'game management' from officials is having a negative effect on the football.

I.E. the game is being managed not for the safety of players (such as 'giving everything' to 'kill a feisty period of a game', but being managed to protect the referee from managers comments after the game, and that doesn't sit well with me, although I understand why refs do it and given the public scrutiny I may even do the same!

 

[PinnerPaul]

It was the assistant on the near side to main cameras who had a poor game.

Both the West Ham 'pen' and the Sterling 'pen' were his to give, plus he missed two clear offsides which, for this level, were not THAT difficult to get right.

 

[bloovee]

West Ham penalty: Understandable mistake given where he ended up but error nevertheless. It worked out OK in the end, with a superb free kick finish.

Arnautovic foul: We've a similar thread on challenging goalkeepers, and this was a charge. Foul correct for me.

Sterling trip: This moment was always going to come. It's a trip and therefore a penalty. No argument on that point, BUT - it's the boy who cried wolf, karma, fate catching up, call it what you will. There have been several occasions where he's dived or gone down early (last week a prime example, and he got the penalty then) and it's going to put doubt in the minds of all but the most die-hard City fans. That's exactly what happened here. Doesn't make it right but I'm short on sympathy for him personally.

Hmm - are you an EPL ref?

Can I chip in one other aspect of EPL reffing that got my goat particularly in this game? It has been a season-long problem and that's referees getting in the way of play when a team is attacking on the left. They are so fixed on their own diagonal that they constantly are in the way - sometimes physically in players' way but often effectively acting as an extra defender cutting off passes. I think Swarbrick actually got tripped over by a City player in the game - no foul as he was impeding the City player. Just keep out of the way!

 

[PinnerPaul]

West Ham penalty: Understandable mistake given where he ended up but error nevertheless. It worked out OK in the end, with a superb free kick finish.

Arnautovic foul: We've a similar thread on challenging goalkeepers, and this was a charge. Foul correct for me.

Sterling trip: This moment was always going to come. It's a trip and therefore a penalty. No argument on that point, BUT - it's the boy who cried wolf, karma, fate catching up, call it what you will. There have been several occasions where he's dived or gone down early (last week a prime example, and he got the penalty then) and it's going to put doubt in the minds of all but the most die-hard City fans. That's exactly what happened here. Doesn't make it right but I'm short on sympathy for him personally.

See where you are coming from Tealeaf re Sterling, but this wasn't an at speed challenge where the temptation to go down 'easily' is there - he had his legs taken away from him at slow speed from behind - at any level that wasn't a difficult one to spot - at this level its a very poor decision.

I do think in general, we shouldn't be afraid of 'admitting' those at the top DO make mistakes - we all do after all!

 

[Tealeaf]

See where you are coming from Tealeaf re Sterling, but this wasn't an at speed challenge where the temptation to go down 'easily' is there - he had his legs taken away from him at slow speed from behind - at any level that wasn't a difficult one to spot - at this level its a very poor decision.

Fundamentally agree - I was merely drawing attention to the fact that this moment was coming. It was always going to be thus, if not in this game then another.

There was always going to be a nailed-on penalty [that is one nobody could dispute] that he would not get, partly due to his behaviour in the past. No attempt at excusing it whatsoever, but nagging doubts affect everyone, whoever they are and whatever they do at some stage. Sympathy for the team without question; absolutely none for the individual.

With that in mind I will nail my colours to the mast here and state I'm glad it happened in a club game, rather than an international.

 

[RustyRef]

Can I chip in one other aspect of EPL reffing that got my goat particularly in this game? It has been a season-long problem and that's referees getting in the way of play when a team is attacking on the left. They are so fixed on their own diagonal that they constantly are in the way - sometimes physically in players' way but often effectively acting as an extra defender cutting off passes. I think Swarbrick actually got tripped over by a City player in the game - no foul as he was impeding the City player. Just keep out of the way!

I've noticed this happen a lot more in recent seasons. I don't think it is down to being fixated on their diagonals though, rather the opposite in that they are now not being told to go as wide as before. This means they are moved back into the more congested central areas of the pitch, and therefore collisions and interference is more likely.

Found it myself when I got L3. At the time as an L4 you were encouraged to run a true diagonal, almost corner flag to corner flag, and I rarely got in the way. That wasn't wanted once I got to L3 and I frequently got in the way, including getting hit by the ball three times in a Ryman League game. One of the managers joked after that I'd had more touches than his centre forward ...

 

[Big Cat]

I've noticed this happen a lot more in recent seasons. I don't think it is down to being fixated on their diagonals though, rather the opposite in that they are now not being told to go as wide as before. This means they are moved back into the more congested central areas of the pitch, and therefore collisions and interference is more likely.

Found it myself when I got L3. At the time as an L4 you were encouraged to run a true diagonal, almost corner flag to corner flag, and I rarely got in the way. That wasn't wanted once I got to L3 and I frequently got in the way, including getting hit by the ball three times in a Ryman League game. One of the managers joked after that I'd had more touches than his centre forward ...

Positioning is more of an art than a science imo. Yes, there's logic to the diagonal or the big S, but the rest is down to reading the game