A&H

Where to Stand ??

If there is constant disregard for the Designated Spectators’ Area, particularly should a spectator enter the field of play, the referee has it within their power to:
1. Speak with the relevant home club official (e.g. coach/team manager/ secretary/welfare officer) and ask them to warn the people concerned, as well as pointing out if there are further infringements they may be asked to leave the vicinity of the pitch or ultimately, may result in the game being abandoned.

2. Request intervention by the league official or club official at half-time to speak with spectators generally about their behaviour and remind them of their Codes of Conduct and the possibility of asking all spectators to remove themselves from the vicinity of the pitch.

3. If it reoccurs, report a club for failure to control their spectators.


From this document....'Referees and RESPECT'
 
The Referee Store
Brian Hamilton said:
Wrong. The referee does have authority. The referee has authority over his field and the immediate vicinity around it. If you choose not to exercise that authority, then you can't complain when people challenge your authority in other ways. If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You are LWR who makes my life and all the referees I train, mentor, assess and coach much more difficult.
Click to expand...

Firstly, you do not know me nor seen my approach on the field so I think your last comment is rather disrespectful.

Secondly, did I state that I wouldn't have a word or say what I would/wouldn't do in this situation? No, so how you have made your judgement is unfair. I assume from this post that a spectator is stood behind a barrier which is designed to stop spectators encroaching the FOP and the surrounding areas. The club responsible for this barrier and pitch have obviously deemed this distance to be acceptable. I'm assuming that with barriers (there's not been a mention that they are respect barriers) the ground possibly belongs to a senior standard club who have more checks carried out on their pitches than the junior clubs.

Padfoot's post again backs up my point... The referee speaks to the coach/home team to ask them to speak to the supporters, because that authority doesn't belong to the referee. The authority he/she has is to abandon the game and then go down the channels after the game.

Im not interested in a c**k measuring contest here which is what it seems to be turning into. I've said my piece, I'll leave it at that.
 
Firstly, boo-hoo, earn your respect.

Secondly, you said the referee had no authority and then when it is clearly shown to you how he does, you suddenly are taking action

Thirdly, you complain about factors outside of your control and yet seem happy to adopt a contrary position to current advice, practice and law both on this thread and the one about a ball being thrown in a player's face.

Fourthly, you'd lose so it's probably best that you leave it.
 
DB said:
Firstly, you do not know me nor seen my approach on the field so I think your last comment is rather disrespectful.

Secondly, did I state that I wouldn't have a word or say what I would/wouldn't do in this situation? No, so how you have made your judgement is unfair. I assume from this post that a spectator is stood behind a barrier which is designed to stop spectators encroaching the FOP and the surrounding areas. The club responsible for this barrier and pitch have obviously deemed this distance to be acceptable. I'm assuming that with barriers (there's not been a mention that they are respect barriers) the ground possibly belongs to a senior standard club who have more checks carried out on their pitches than the junior clubs.

Padfoot's post again backs up my point... The referee speaks to the coach/home team to ask them to speak to the supporters, because that authority doesn't belong to the referee. The authority he/she has is to abandon the game and then go down the channels after the game.

Im not interested in a c**k measuring contest here which is what it seems to be turning into. I've said my piece, I'll leave it at that.
Click to expand...

The authority does belong to referee. The correct method of wielding that authority is via the team official because it is their responsibility to control their spectators.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Firstly, boo-hoo, earn your respect.

Secondly, you said the referee had no authority and then when it is clearly shown to you how he does, you suddenly are taking action

Thirdly, you complain about factors outside of your control and yet seem happy to adopt a contrary position to current advice, practice and law both on this thread and the one about a ball being thrown in a player's face.

Fourthly, you'd lose so it's probably best that you leave it.
Click to expand...
Now now, no need for the attitude is there. Who :poop: in your cornflakes today Brian?

My opinion, for what it's worth... the 'Referees and Respect' document states that it is "suggested" that the Designated Spectators' Area is on the opposite side of the pitch to the club officials. It's clear to me that the situation in the OP is different to most cases of youth matches, in that the pitch is cordoned off with a metal barrier - it's not an open field as most youth games are, and therefore the spectators are already separated from the field of play and its immediate surroundings.

Unless the parent in question is shouting abuse at anyone, I can see no reason why one should have to intervene.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DB
ByronCoach said:
This is the reply I offered but the opposing teams manager has said he will report his daughters team at the next league meeting..

Told him I felt they had no leg to stand on...
Click to expand...

He might actually as there is a clear differentiation here between law and rule. The parent my well be in breach of rule - not in the designated area, and as a 'pushy parent' may actually distract opposing players, and make life difficult for the team as a whole. By this I mean league reps, who may observe this non-compliance and pull the club up over it.

As for ourselves, having someone in that position can be distracting and potentially problematic. It becomes another factor, and if they're moving, shouting, or whatever draw some of our attention, particularly at that level. The designated spectator area is designed to help everybody. Be proactive, see if you can get them shifted. If not you've tried. The failure doesn't undermine you because you have put the responsibility onto someone else, not shirked it. Subtle behavioural changes an be encouraged by doing this, and make life easier in the longer term.
 
Now time for the big guns to come out. Enough is enough.

Any further degeneration will see closure and possible sanctions against offenders. I have no desire to become trigger-happy and lock everything the moment a debate threatens to break out, but there are limits.

@DB sir, some of your comments on other threads have had me nodding in agreement, as you often make a salient point, close to the left-field area I inhabit. For this I applaud you. Today however you made a statement (semantics perhaps, benefit of the doubt given) that has been correctly holed below the water line. You're in danger of straying into defending the indefensible territory now.

With that said, the language being used by many is becoming far too emotive, and equally moving into the same space. Please, please tone it and cool it down. Fights and disputes are unseemly and make life difficult for us all.

This is me exercising the great responsibility that comes with my "great" power.
 
I've just spoken to someone on the blower for an answer on this as it has rattled me a bit because everything that's been said on the post is contradicting everything that I have read and been taught.

In a nutshell, referee's have no authority at all to remove people from the vicinity of a football pitch who aren't involved in the game itself (I.e spectators). If a referee has to deal with a spectator, they are not to confront them themselves as this has the potential to cause all sorts of problems. The referee should speak to the coach/management team to attempt to deal with the situation. The authority that the referee has in situations he/she believes are untenable is to abandon the game; he should do this if there is a danger present or the behaviour of the spectator(s) is bringing the game into disrepute (racism, homophobic behaviour to name but a few). He is then to report what has happened to the league and CFA.

@Tealeaf I'm not sure what statement you are on about but if that is the case, I apologise. I never mean to offend anyone, even if they offend me. I believe in people having an opinion and voicing an opinion. I also respect that others may not agree with that opinion, that's their God given right! I don't appreciate people getting personal and making personal opinions based on something (or someone) they know nothing about. I don't get personal with anyone, I give my opinions and I welcome feedback, both positive and negative. I don't appreciate people getting personal with me, nor anyone else.

To that end, if I have offended anyone, I apologise. That's not my intention, even if you have been a bit of a .... to me :)
 
Last edited:
So...a spectator is causing a problem, you speak to the relevant manager, warning them that the spectators behaviour is unacceptable.
The manager speaks to them but the spectator continues to cause an issue.

What are your options now?

Put up with it, hoping it doesn't spark bigger problems as the game progresses?
Abandon immediately because you don't have authority to get them removed?

Or....inform the manager that the spectator needs to leave the vicinity of the fop? Which 9 times out of 10 they do and the game continues. On the odd one occasion they might not then you can legitimately move to abandon.

Totally agree that refs shouldn't be confronting spectators directly, but wholeheartedly disagree that refs have neither the responsibility or authority to ensure problem spectators are dealt with.
 
@Padfoot , I'm not Interested in having a verbal tug of war here, I'm merely stating facts. A referees interpretation of those facts, will of course differ from person to person. You know that as much as I do. What we chose to do in these situations is different for every person, each with the hope of the same outcome.

Personally, if there was a rowdy spectator, I would first consider how he/she is affecting me as a referee (and my AR's if applicable), the players and the technical areas. If the teams are being grown up about it and ignoring it all, a quick word with the management team to have a word would be suffice.

If there was anything occurring that brings the game into disrepute or affects the safety of anyone at the game, I would have no hesitation at all for abandoning.

Understand something though, a rowdy spectator on the sidelines screaming obscenities to me, as a man would have no affect. I'm used to that from my years of playing in front of crowds. It has no effect on me and rarely has any affect on the rest of the players on that field. A rowdy spectator shouting racist chants etc, completely different ball game.

Should a spectator be a Bugger in a youth game, completely different story. Kids should not be subjected to any form of abuse. So I'd take a stepped approach: ask management team to have a word. If that don't work, another word stating the consequences should they not comply. Then step three, abandonment. Paying particular attention to the way the kids are reacting of course determines the approach.
 
Last edited:
Tealeaf said:
This is better gents, thank you ;)
Click to expand...
I'm glad you think so...!

Chaps, just to add to Tealeaf's earlier post.

Firstly, be glad that he saw it before I did as my response would not have been as nice as his and I would have been issuing warning points and deleting/editing posts accordingly!

Tealeaf, as he has said himself, is still new to being a mod and doesn't want to become trigger happy. Please don't make him more experienced at dealing with this sort of stuff!!

Finally, the use of language, tone and the bickering is both embarrassing and unacceptable. I won't be naming names, nor issuing warning points at this stage, but whilst opinions can (and will) vary between members, the way in which they are debated must remain as a non-derogatory way throughout (yes, I'm fully aware that I myself break this at times!) and not be personal!

Many thanks!
 
Monotone Whistle said:
If someone had told me to move, I would have reminded them I was in a public park.
Click to expand...
I'd expect better from a referee than to try that rubbish line. I know in Australia, as the club/football authority has hired the park they have total control over who gets to use it. It may well be the case over there - if not you could never force any spectator to do so much as walk off the pitch.

As for the 'behind the goals' thing....in Australia it seems to be accepted practice to not allow people to stand behind the goals. Players seem to get irritated when they are, and referees seem to enforce it. No particular rule backing that up, but it's conventional. I've allowed leniency in, say, particularly young games where the keeper is taking ages to release the ball because they need that close assistance, but carefully monitored the person there, and that's a 'best for the game' scenario.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
I'd expect better from a referee than to try that rubbish line. I know in Australia, as the club/football authority has hired the park they have total control over who gets to use it. It may well be the case over there - if not you could never force any spectator to do so much as walk off the pitch.

As for the 'behind the goals' thing....in Australia it seems to be accepted practice to not allow people to stand behind the goals. Players seem to get irritated when they are, and referees seem to enforce it. No particular rule backing that up, but it's conventional. I've allowed leniency in, say, particularly young games where the keeper is taking ages to release the ball because they need that close assistance, but carefully monitored the person there, and that's a 'best for the game' scenario.
Click to expand...

For 99% of clubs and referees in this country it's accepted practice that people aren't allowed behind the goals.
 
Mainly doing youth football, I have had this scenario a number of times - and its usually fairly easy to tell whether the person by the goal is a parent rather than an innocent bystander out walking their dog. I've never had a problem when directly asking the person standing there to move: "Sorry, I need you to move to the sidelines please." If I did, I would then be involving the home manager. Whilst it may not directly be the referee's responsibility, it is the coaches. When I took my L1 badge, we were taught not to allow parents etc behind the goal because of the psychological impact it can have on a young goalkeeper, either distracting them or placing too much pressure upon them. The rationale behind coaches on one side of the pitch and spectators on the other is also not RESPECT related (RESPECT requiring spectators to be behind a respect line) - it is so that the players can clearly identify direction coming from coaches and shouts coming from parents.
So as a referee does it overly bother me? Not particularly. But as a qualified coach it absolutely does and they are being moved every single time, and I won't restart play until they have moved.
And its amazing what being polite and almost apologetic in the way you ask said parent can get you. Compliance with no grief.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
I'd expect better from a referee than to try that rubbish line. I know in Australia, as the club/football authority has hired the park they have total control over who gets to use it. .
Click to expand...

Oh well, I'll think up something more eloquent should the situation arise next weekend when undoubtedly i'll do the same thing. And no, it's not the same over here as it is in Oz.

I don't do much kids football, so I have little knowledge about Respect barriers and the like, I was just making a point that at times there will be other spectators (not related to either side) standing around watching for 5 minutes, like I was. I was also asking if there is a difference between spectators just watching or shouting instructions, etc.

I'm glad I've learnt something, I'm hoping to mentor some younger refs from next season so it's useful to know what they should be doing in this situation.
 
As far as I am aware, there is a relatively common convention that people should not stand behind the goals (at least on smaller grounds, where this is not a clearly-designated spectator area). One of the youth leagues I used to ref in actually had it as part of their rules of competition that this was prohibited.

Even if it's not in the ROC, as different contributors have already pointed out, there are a number of good arguments for not allowing this. I was also under the impression that it is usually considered the home team's responsibility to control the spectators - though once again this may or may not be specified in the ROC.

So I can see both sides of the argument: yes, the referee has a responsibility for the conduct of the game and ensuring that it is played without undue interference but no, he does not have explicit powers assigned under the Laws of the Game to directly control the behaviour of spectators. On the other hand he can (and should) use various indirect methods if required, to ensure that any unacceptable spectator behaviour is not allowed to continue unabated.
 
I've never seen a RESPECT barrier extend to down behind a goal before?

In any event, as far as I'm concerned, the barrier (if erected) is there for the parents to stand behind. Not the goal. If Daddy wants to stand behind the goal - tough. I'd ask him to move and respect protocol (via the team manager in the first instance) and suggest that the match cannot commence/continue until he does so. :cool:
 
search
 
Kes said:
I've never seen a RESPECT barrier extend to down behind a goal before?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if that's in reference to my post where I talk about designated spectator areas behind the goals but if it is, I was referring to grounds (such as football league grounds) which have stands on all four sides, not pitches with RESPECT barriers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top