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Brian Hamilton

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For the third game in a row I've been told I "don't know the rules". This time it was a player wanting to take a throw-in 25 yards nearer his own goal. I did him a favour and gave a double tap on the whistle before instructing him to move to the correct position. At that point he gave me the wisdom of his experience and then shook his head in that sarcastic/condescending manner that middle aged parents do to their children shortly before they tell them that "they are disappointed in them."

When I told him to stop shaking his head and that if he did it again I would caution him, he did it again, this time looking me straight in the eye. When I cautioned him, he told me he had been playing for more than 30 years and had never been cautioned. The club secretary after the game told me I was a disgrace for cautioning his player for his dissent by action (it was an open age game and this was his son by the way).

He didn't compliment me on either of the penalties I awarded his team (one missed; one saved) nor on the dismissal of an opponent using OFFINABUS towards one of his players, but they must have slipped his mind, eh?
 
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Hi BH
Many players don't know the laws of the game. Players think that they can go back as far as they want on a TI. Problem is that many refs don't pull them up on it.
Had the free kick not leaving the pa before being played and I was told it was not a goal kick so how is it a retake.
 
Goldfish said:
Hi BH
Many players don't know the laws of the game. Players think that they can go back as far as they want on a TI. Problem is that many refs don't pull them up on it.
Had the free kick not leaving the pa before being played and I was told it was not a goal kick so how is it a retake.
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Had that tonight as well. No one argued that point strangely enough (already cautioned 2 for dissent)
 
I love the old 'throw in behind the mark' one. If you ever want to look at how illogical players can be, this is a perfect example.
The argument is always "How is he benefitting from it when it's closer to his own goal?"
Well, the painfully obvious fact is that if he isn't benefitting from it, he wouldn't be doing it! The fact that he attempted it is simple proof that it impacts play!
No problems with the dissent caution....but only because you backed yourself into a corner here.
Why threaten to caution him for taking a throw from the wrong spot? It's not a cautionable offence, and there are other ways to handle it. If he wasn't staring at you in defiance while he took the throw would you have cautioned? For what?

The 2 paths you could have taken, IMO:
1) Not say anything about the throw. If he tries it again keep being proactive and move him upfield if you have the chance, and if he continues to whinge then you deal with that dissent appropriately
2) Advise him that you won't try to help him out next time - and next time, just wait for him to take it and award the incorrectly taken TI to the other team.

The latter is probably more 'gotcha' refereeing - and probably more likely to result in a card for dissent (and potential further issues). At least with the former you've done everything possible to remain proactive and know that you haven't contributed towards the card.

I assume you reported the club secretary for the abusive language?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
I love the old 'throw in behind the mark' one. If you ever want to look at how illogical players can be, this is a perfect example.
The argument is always "How is he benefitting from it when it's closer to his own goal?"
Well, the painfully obvious fact is that if he isn't benefitting from it, he wouldn't be doing it! The fact that he attempted it is simple proof that it impacts play!
No problems with the dissent caution....but only because you backed yourself into a corner here.
Why threaten to caution him for taking a throw from the wrong spot? It's not a cautionable offence, and there are other ways to handle it. If he wasn't staring at you in defiance while he took the throw would you have cautioned? For what?

The 2 paths you could have taken, IMO:
1) Not say anything about the throw. If he tries it again keep being proactive and move him upfield if you have the chance, and if he continues to whinge then you deal with that dissent appropriately
2) Advise him that you won't try to help him out next time - and next time, just wait for him to take it and award the incorrectly taken TI to the other team.

The latter is probably more 'gotcha' refereeing - and probably more likely to result in a card for dissent (and potential further issues). At least with the former you've done everything possible to remain proactive and know that you haven't contributed towards the card.

I assume you reported the club secretary for the abusive language?
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Caution wasn't for taking it from the wrong spot but for the condescending head shaking, i.e. dissent by action. A player who forced out a false and elongated laugh about a decision later in the game was also cautioned for dissent by action. The player wasn't staring at me in defiance when taking the throw, he was doing it while still walking to the correct position for the throw-in.

Why ignore the taking of a throw-in from the wrong place? A later throw-in by his opponents was turned over. I had already told that team to change the position of the throw earlier in the game. One warning/help apiece.

I didn't find his use of the word disgrace abusive at that point.
 
If the caution was for the head shaking, why did you warn him that if he took the TI from the wrong spot again you'd caution him for that?
I didn't argue for ignoring the taking of the TI from the wrong place at all :)
 
CapnBloodbeard I think you need to re read Brian's post. No where does he suggest that

He warned him that if he carried on shaking his head he'd get a booking.

Which is spot on ;)
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
If the caution was for the head shaking, why did you warn him that if he took the TI from the wrong spot again you'd caution him for that?
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He didn't, he said that if the player shook his head at him again then he would caution him for it.
 
Ahh, right, I get it now. I was reading 'if he did it again' as referring to the TI. That makes more sense - I was surprised about that from Brian!! :p

Time for another cuppa methinks....
 
Hi
I had a player last season have a serious whinge at me about the free kick inside the penalty area and he told me I was wrong, it was not a GK and that I did not know the rules. I said to him do you want to bet 1000 quid that I'm wrong on that, sort of smiling at him. He looked at me and I repeated my challenge to him. 1000 quid I'm wrong? He looked at me, said nothing and ran off for the restart. I could have threatened him with a caution for repeated dissent again. Fairly likely he may have had another go.
In these TI situations I just say loudly the TI is taken from where it left the FOP and repeat it if necessary. If refs make threats about if a player does X that Y will happen it backs the ref into one option only which is Y.
I watched a Championship game recently and the ref asked a player to go back on a TI . He then decided to go so far back thatit was 15 yards from where the TI was from and he threw the ball towards his own goal which was allowed. That IMHO sends out the signal that there is nothing wrong in the game with going back on a TI. Far too many refs allow it. No appeal from the opponents who were not bothered about the TI going back 15 yards.
On a lot of these moans, whinges I just blank them or move away. I save the dissent caution for the having a go after a decision is made such at a FK, penalty, etc
 
Is this a case of the laws having changed? I might be wrong, but I think when I first qualified (10 years ago), the law stated something along the lines of "Throw must reenter play at or behind the location it left play"....or am I completely imaging this?
 
Taking a throw in from the wrong place is more often than not gaining an advantage, the direction in which you have wrongly gone is irrelevant. Saying that you saw a Championship referee do it so therefore it must be ok is like saying we see Wayne Rooney shout at a ref and not get a yellow so we should allow that also.
 
GraemeS said:
Is this a case of the laws having changed? I might be wrong, but I think when I first qualified (10 years ago), the law stated something along the lines of "Throw must reenter play at or behind the location it left play"....or am I completely imaging this?
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• delivers the ball from the point where it left the field of play


and the following is from 2004;

A throw-in is a method of restarting play. A goal cannot be scored directly from a throw-in. A throw-in is awarded: • when the whole of the ball passes over the touch line, either on the ground or in the air; • from the point where it crossed the touch line; • to the opponents of the player who last touched the ball.
 
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@Brian Hamilton - looks like you still need some more games to develop your man management further :)

What hope is there for the younger referees if you cant sell these decisions. Why we don't all quit and lets what football is like?
 
GraemeS said:
Is this a case of the laws having changed? I might be wrong, but I think when I first qualified (10 years ago), the law stated something along the lines of "Throw must reenter play at or behind the location it left play"....or am I completely imaging this?
Click to expand...
I'm afraid you're imagining it. The Laws have always said that a throw-in is taken from the point where the ball left the field, ever since the first set of Laws were issued in 1863.
 
Goldfish said:
Hi BH
Many players don't know the laws of the game. Players think that they can go back as far as they want on a TI. Problem is that many refs don't pull them up on it.
Had the free kick not leaving the pa before being played and I was told it was not a goal kick so how is it a retake.
Click to expand...

Had that one of Weds evening as well plus "he can't be offside, it hit defender before it got to him"
 
Had one last night in a cup final. 5 mins to go, Red team winning one nil. Ball comes to GK at about 2mph, he lets it hit his hands, dribbles it around for a while then picks it up. I was on the line, ref had clear view so I did nothing. Mentioned to the GK after the game that if I'd have been in the middle he'd have ended up with an IFK against him which might not have gone down too well with his team mates! He was happy to get the advice and even more happy not to have been penalised during the game!
 
Law 15, remains the simplest and yet the most ridiculously misunderstood (both by referees and players alike) law of them all. The "foul throw" thread I started on here back in November is testimony to that fact. The recent Law overhaul by IFAB was a great opportunity to reclassify the requirements of Law 15 and dispense with the ambiguity that surrounds it's interpretation. But no. We'll still have a few more years of dumbass coaches, players and spectators shouting "foul throw ref" and even more saddening - equally dumbass referees agreeing with them. :rolleyes:
 
Ah the foul throw

It's so simple but yet so irritating at games

I've lost count of the times I've shouted 'it might look wrong but it doesn't necessarily mean it is'

I've adapted a rolling of the wrists that accompanies a shout of 'over his head that's fine lads play on'

But it's getting to the same levels as 'IN THE BACK REF' every time a player so much as raises his arm this season :rolleyes:
 
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