A&H

defender blocking shot diverts ball to attacker in offside position

I do actually agree with the right honourable for @Padfoot west’s analysis of the fifa prose. It’s cack. The analysis is spot on.

However, I disagree that the LotG are solving all our problems here. Deflection and save are not well enough explained, that’s clear by the interpretations we have. Just like the handball law is also not well enough explained.
 
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I sometime despair of a lot of my colleagues on here. There is far too much over thinking. If you keep it simple you will arrive at the correct conclusion. @Padfoot is rarely wrong and in this thread absolutely right.
Stop over thinking....deliberate in this context is far easier to judge than in the case of handball. Using any part of the body (except the arms) to strike, touch or alter the course of a ball in motion is a deliberate act and not a deflection. Simple!
 
If the defender is stood still and the ball strikes them, that is a rebound/deflection.......if they make a movement to intercept the ball and contact the ball, that is playing the ball.

Can i ask (sorry if this confuses it more)

What if a player (call him number 10) takes a 25 yard free kick and an attacker (team mate call him number 9) is standing in an off side position, keeper palms the ball out and number 9 puts the ball into the net.

Offside or onside ?
 
spuddy1878 said:
If the defender is stood still and the ball strikes them, that is a rebound/deflection.......if they make a movement to intercept the ball and contact the ball, that is playing the ball.

Can i ask (sorry if this confuses it more)

What if a player (call him number 10) takes a 25 yard free kick and an attacker (team mate call him number 9) is standing in an off side position, keeper palms the ball out and number 9 puts the ball into the net.

Offside or onside ?
Click to expand...

Already covered. Please keep up.
 
Free kick. The defenders in the wall, 15-yards from goal, jump to try andblock it. Ball skims off defenders heads and goes to an attacker who was in an offside position when the free kick was taken.
Offside or not?
 
bester said:
Free kick. The defenders in the wall, 15-yards from goal, jump to try andblock it. Ball skims off defenders heads and goes to an attacker who was in an offside position when the free kick was taken.
Offside or not?
Click to expand...

Not based on the info given.

Deliberate action which contacts the ball....defender played the ball.
 
bester said:
Free kick. The defenders in the wall, 15-yards from goal, jump to try andblock it. Ball skims off defenders heads and goes to an attacker who was in an offside position when the free kick was taken.
Offside or not?
Click to expand...
Offside if the free kick was going into or very close to the goal... because the defender's action is a save according to the LotG
 
Great debate but I bet you anything that if you give an onside to an offside attacker after a defender does something to play the ball then virtually all the defensive team will think you’re a £&@t and you don’t know what you are doing! Regardless of any discussion here you fecked up in their eyes!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Great debate but I bet you anything that if you give an onside to an offside attacker after a defender does something to play the ball then virtually all the defensive team will think you’re a £&@t and you don’t know what you are doing! Regardless of any discussion here you fecked up in their eyes!
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And the flip side of that is if you give an offside after a deflection, the whole of the attacking team think you fecked up "but it come of him ref".

Just do what's right (at least what you think is right) and then, and only then, manage the expectation as a good referee does.
 
If a player is an offside position and his team attempts to pass him the ball, a defender attempts to clear the ball but slices it and it goes to the offside attacker. Surely this would still be offside as he's gained an advantage from the original offside?

Where as if he was onside originally and it was a through ball, and he found himself in an offside position when the ball was sliced to him by a defender then he would be onside.
 
Trueman1991 said:
If a player is an offside position and his team attempts to pass him the ball, a defender attempts to clear the ball but slices it and it goes to the offside attacker. Surely this would still be offside as he's gained an advantage from the original offside?

Where as if he was onside originally and it was a through ball, and he found himself in an offside position when the ball was sliced to him by a defender then he would be onside.
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Gaining advantage works differently but nonetheless.
What if it wasn't a slice but it was passed straight to him thinking it's a team mate? Would you apply the same logic?
 
one said:
Gaining advantage works differently but nonetheless.
What if it wasn't a slice but it was passed straight to him thinking it's a team mate? Would you apply the same logic?
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If it was a pass straight to him then play on.

My thoughts were he's already offside and you could argue the defender may not have attempted to clear if the attacker wasn't in that position.

However I guess what you could argue as expected from the LoTG is for the defender to control the ball, and if the attacker attempted to interfere from an offside position, then give the offside.
 
Trueman1991 said:
If a player is an offside position and his team attempts to pass him the ball, a defender attempts to clear the ball but slices it and it goes to the offside attacker. Surely this would still be offside as he's gained an advantage from the original offside?.
Click to expand...

No, the LotG state "gaining an advantage by..." The "by" bit is important. The idea/concept of "gaining an advantage" is not significant on its own. You can only "gain an advantage" in the LotG...

"by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
•• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
••been deliberately saved by any opponent"

The defender miskick is a deliberate play, so it's (LOL Edited for writing too much typo) onside.
(Unless the ball is heading into or very close to the goal, in which case you might be able to class it is a save - but you said "pass" so probably not ;))



Trueman1991 said:
Where as if he was onside originally and it was a through ball, and he found himself in an offside position when the ball was sliced to him by a defender then he would be onside.
Click to expand...

Yes. The attacker was not in an offside position when the ball was kicked by the teammate. No offside.
 
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Trueman1991 said:
If it was a pass straight to him then play on.

My thoughts were he's already offside and you could argue the defender may not have attempted to clear if the attacker wasn't in that position.

However I guess what you could argue as expected from the LoTG is for the defender to control the ball, and if the attacker attempted to interfere from an offside position, then give the offside.
Click to expand...

The attacker would not have passed it to him either if he was not in the position .
So they are both defender mistakes one due to poor skills on the foot the other poor awareness. Attacker is in the same position. Why would you punish one and not the other. While the law is giving inside on both, your suggestion is very inconsistent.
 
santa sangria said:
No, the LotG state "gaining an advantage by..." The "by" bit is important. The idea/concept of "gaining an advantage" is not significant on its own. You can only "gain an advantage" in the LotG...

"by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
•• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
••been deliberately saved by any opponent"

The defender miskick is a deliberate play, so it's still offside.
(Unless the ball is heading into or very close to the goal, in which case you might be able to class it is a save - but you said "pass" so probably not ;))

Do you mean onside here?
The deliberate play would, for me, reset the off side unless it was the offside player interfering with the player (causing him to slice, challenging for ball or something).
Click to expand...
 
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