A&H

For the older refs...

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Pierluigi

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This summer I will be taking an assessors course to not only help my development but hopefully to give something back as well. i initially thought I would just plan to assess younger referees (probably u21) at levels 6, 7 and 8 when I was free...however the more I've thought about it I am becoming more open to assessing referees of all ages. My initial reason for limiting the age was to avoid a situation where a referee may feel like he's being patronised as a referee far younger than him will be his assessor.

Just out of curiosity for the slightly older referees, say late 20s and above (I realise this isnt old its just relative to my age haha!) how would you feel if someone like myself (19 yo but Level 4) were to come and assess you?

Honest opinions appreciated and valued!!
 
The Referee Store
My initial reaction would be, if this guy thats younger than me is knowledgeable enough to assess me and to criticise me and offer advice, then why is he assessing and not refereeing?
 
Reffariiii said:
My initial reaction would be, if this guy thats younger than me is knowledgeable enough to assess me and to criticise me and offer advice, then why is he assessing and not refereeing?
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Thanks for the reply.

It would only be on Sundays/Mid-week when I don't have a game myself or of course if I was injured!
 
i'm 28. i don't think age makes a difference personally, but you might find that you need to demonstrate your credibility up front.
 
Richthekeeper said:
i'm 28. i don't think age makes a difference personally, but you might find that you need to demonstrate your credibility up front.
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I think it definitely could be a case of perhaps only assessing those who are newly qualified, from my experience some of the more experienced officials can sometimes become less receptive to criticism even from the most seasoned assessor in the later stages of their career!
 
I'm 44....good luck with that.

You have nowhere near the life experience I have etc etc.......in short you have nothing in common with me other than being a referee.
And I know that our approaches and attitudes will be poles apart when it comes to refereeing.......
I am sure you could impart some knowledge to me, I'm old enough to accept that we can learn new things every day if we are open to it.
I have been assessed by those younger than me.....but normally only by 10 yrs or so. Not sure I could take someone barely out of school seriously enough.....harsh maybe, my fault, almost certainly, but true nonetheless.

Thankfully assessments and the such no longer bother me. I referee how I want, when I want.
 
If you can do the job properly pierluigi with enthusiasm and sound knowledge plus present your feedback in a constructive and motivating manner then good luck to you. I would have no problem with your age if you manage the above.

You would need to be prepared for others not feeling the same though mate and be able to ignore (or rise above) their attitude whilst managing the fulfill above :D Good luck
 
I would echo the comment made above about establishing your credibility. I don't know how assessors are allocated in your area. In mine a co-ordinator will contact the assessors for availability and then advise the referee who was coming to watch them. At that point they can help establish some of your credibility by emphasising your experience and level.

I note what Padfoot is saying but you will rarely come across this type of referee as most who are that age and chasing promotion will have a different attitude to refereeing. They will recognise that to get promoted they will have to follow certain criteria to achieve progression.

I became a much better referee when I became an assessor. Hope that works for you too.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
I would echo the comment made above about establishing your credibility. I don't know how assessors are allocated in your area. In mine a co-ordinator will contact the assessors for availability and then advise the referee who was coming to watch them. At that point they can help establish some of your credibility by emphasising your experience and level.

I note what Padfoot is saying but you will rarely come across this type of referee as most who are that age and chasing promotion will have a different attitude to refereeing. They will recognise that to get promoted they will have to follow certain criteria to achieve progression.

I became a much better referee when I became an assessor. Hope that works for you too.
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Just want to pick up on this....

At 19 he can have, at best, 5 yrs of refereeing experience, and only 3 at open age.
Level....possibly a double jump in there somewhere? Even if not, only 3 yrs experience of the promotion system.....which as we all know is heavily biased towards youth and who you know not what you know.

Experience counts for far more than level......which is why there should be time served requirement to promotions above level 5.
 
So that would be 5 years since he was trained using generic tutor training adopting the 4 cornered approach which runs like a thread through all the FA's training these days. It's better than sitting round a table in a working men's club reading from the LotG for 8 weeks.

So possibly 100-200 games before entering open age and possibly another 300 games since then at all levels and in all roles.

Double jump? Possibly but must have been good enough. Based on youth and who you know not what you know? Maybe, maybe not. In my County there are a number of referees being nominated for level 4 this season who are 30+

Experience works, but level gives exposure to more advanced levels of support and development and more modern methods as well. Not geared towards youth, it's geared towards those who are receptive and willing to make good use of the support provided.
 
Thanks very much for your replies guys! All opinions are appreciated (no matter how drastic or controversial they are! :p )

Yes, @Padfoot you may have a slightly erratic way with words but I do get your point. For someone at your age refereeing takes on a different meaning, it is much more about the hobby rather than focusing on the progression side of things. Therefore being assessed can sometimes be seen as more of an annoyance rather than being helpful! I have experienced this with many referees who like the way they do things as it works for them so see no need for change!

@Padfoot and @Brian Hamilton, perhaps rather than continuing with a debate about what I have or haven't done I should enlighten you both with a sort of pen picture.

Qualified in 2010 aged 15 (very nearly 16 at the time)

2010 - late 2011 ran the line for a local senior side for a side in a local senior league where there were no NARs alongside some Youth games (For any Level 8s or even 7s who arent doing OA yet I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND running the line for a local senior side- Firstly you wont be officiating on these days and secondly I consider this decision to be a vital factor in my so far quick progression up the ranks- You wont regret it)...sorry for going slightly off topic!

Early 2012-2013- 1.5 seasons at OA on a junior league- In this time I achieved promotion from 7-6 and was awarded a trophy for being the Most Promising Level 7 in the county at the time (And the assessment average I achieved this with was the highest ever for the award)

2013-2014- (Last season)- My first season on a senior league- Gained promotion from 6-4 (So yes, I did do a double jump)- However I did achieve the 2nd highest average assessment score with 77 (This included two marks in the 80s). I was also only 0.2 off the highest who has just come over from Poland having refereed their equivalent of conference football in front of crowds averaging in the thousands.

In this time I have also achieved 3 county finals in three years as well as having the honour of working with the select group.

Not meaning to gloat here just stating facts to hopefully allow @Padfoot etc to gauge my level of experience! I do totally appreciate if your views remain the same, as being assessed by a teenager half your age will never feel completely comfortable! This discussion will really help me after I take the course!
 
Brian Hamilton said:
So that would be 5 years since he was trained using generic tutor training adopting the 4 cornered approach which runs like a thread through all the FA's training these days. It's better than sitting round a table in a working men's club reading from the LotG for 8 weeks.

So possibly 100-200 games before entering open age and possibly another 300 games since then at all levels and in all roles.

Double jump? Possibly but must have been good enough. Based on youth and who you know not what you know? Maybe, maybe not. In my County there are a number of referees being nominated for level 4 this season who are 30+

Experience works, but level gives exposure to more advanced levels of support and development and more modern methods as well. Not geared towards youth, it's geared towards those who are receptive and willing to make good use of the support provided.
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Absolute tosh I'm afraid.

Everything about referee advancement in this country is heavily weighted towards youth.
Even my own RDO admits that a 30 something ref trying to get to level 4 or above will have a tougher journey than an 18 yr old ref.
Proven time and again in my county, the young candidates get selected to go to St George's Park to work with FIFA officials and the Select group, the older guys are pretty much left to their own devices.
 
Pierluigi said:
Thanks very much for your replies guys! All opinions are appreciated (no matter how drastic or controversial they are! :p )

Yes, @Padfoot you may have a slightly erratic way with words but I do get your point. For someone at your age refereeing takes on a different meaning, it is much more about the hobby rather than focusing on the progression side of things. Therefore being assessed can sometimes be seen as more of an annoyance rather than being helpful! I have experienced this with many referees who like the way they do things as it works for them so see no need for change!

@Padfoot and @Brian Hamilton, perhaps rather than continuing with a debate about what I have or haven't done I should enlighten you both with a sort of pen picture.

Qualified in 2010 aged 15 (very nearly 16 at the time)

2010 - late 2011 ran the line for a local senior side for a side in a local senior league where there were no NARs alongside some Youth games (For any Level 8s or even 7s who arent doing OA yet I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND running the line for a local senior side- Firstly you wont be officiating on these days and secondly I consider this decision to be a vital factor in my so far quick progression up the ranks- You wont regret it)...sorry for going slightly off topic!

Early 2012-2013- 1.5 seasons at OA on a junior league- In this time I achieved promotion from 7-6 and was awarded a trophy for being the Most Promising Level 7 in the county at the time (And the assessment average I achieved this with was the highest ever for the award)

2013-2014- (Last season)- My first season on a senior league- Gained promotion from 6-4 (So yes, I did do a double jump)- However I did achieve the 2nd highest average assessment score with 77 (This included two marks in the 80s). I was also only 0.2 off the highest who has just come over from Poland having refereed their equivalent of conference football in front of crowds averaging in the thousands.

In this time I have also achieved 3 county finals in three years as well as having the honour of working with the select group.

Not meaning to gloat here just stating facts to hopefully allow @Padfoot etc to gauge my level of experience! I do totally appreciate if your views remain the same, as being assessed by a teenager half your age will never feel completely comfortable! This discussion will really help me after I take the course!
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Please don't take the wrong way...but....your experience is 2.5 seasons of football. However you choose to dress that up, it's still 2.5 seasons, nothing more nothing less.

How many 'difficult' games did you have?

I've watched a young referee go from 7 to 4 in my county, and watched their fixtures.....remarkably they seem to have avoided games that would be potentially problematic, not a bad feat over 2 seasons.
Are they going to continue have such 'luck' now they are officiating at a higher level....who knows?
 
Supermonkey said:
Please keep this on topic gents. It's starting to wander @Padfoot
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How on earth is it starting to wander?

It's directly related to the original question.....about how an older referee views younger assessors. The assessors pathway and the referees experiences of promotions are directly connected to how that older ref would view a younger assessor.

Views don't form in vacuum, they are created by a persons knowledge and experience.
 
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