A&H

For the older refs...

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svenny76 said:
Personally I couldn't give 2 hoots of the age or sex of my assessor!
I'm a level 7 referee of (37 years years old) and I would welcome any advise from any level referee.
There appears to be a lot of level 7/8 referees on here who seem to think they know everything on refereeing despite the fact they've only refereed youth football and a handful of OA games.

I don't know all there is to know about the game, but I like to think I read the game very well as I've played the game for 27 years and played to western league standard (level 4 referee standard).

There's some people on here who need to start listening to a few people and take on board some advice.
(Yes it's been a long day at work).

By the way, congratulations on your level 4 status at your age, you've obviously got a bright future ahead of you.
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I have to say I think that is the most sensible post I've seen on here in a long time! Talking a lot of sense!

Thanks very much for the kind words though svenny, maybe one day our paths will cross as I will be on the GCL or Western league next year as I am at university in Bristol.
 
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svenny76 said:
Personally I couldn't give 2 hoots of the age or sex of my assessor!
I'm a level 7 referee of (37 years years old) and I would welcome any advise from any level referee.
There appears to be a lot of level 7/8 referees on here who seem to think they know everything on refereeing despite the fact they've only refereed youth football and a handful of OA games.

I don't know all there is to know about the game, but I like to think I read the game very well as I've played the game for 27 years and played to western league standard (level 4 referee standard).

There's some people on here who need to start listening to a few people and take on board some advice.
(Yes it's been a long day at work).

By the way, congratulations on your level 4 status at your age, you've obviously got a bright future ahead of you.
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In what way are there people who 'think they know everything on refereeing'? I'm sure every single 'level 7/8' referee, myself included, does not think this
 
I wouldn't be so sure, Owen. While they may not explicitly think "I know everything about officiating" they do express it in their comments elsewhere.
 
Padfoot said:
Training will never replace actual match based experience. You can talk and demonstrate as much as you like, but what you can't replicate is the passion, adrenaline, pace or temperature of an actual match.

So while you are off examining theoretical situations in a nice calm polite clinical environment, the older referee has already had those lesson learnt in the heat of matches. And probably learnt it quicker and with longer lasting effect!

I'm for youth progression but to be honest, to have a 19 yr old kid with only 2.5 seasons of "experience" behind them officiating in the semi pro game is really just a recipe for disaster. Ask Stuart Attwell!
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The benefit to reflecting on a situation without all of the emotion/adrenaline, etc. means that the referee can prepare themselves mentally for what they want to do and say. They can rehearse how they want to position themselves, the words they want to use and also how to keep themselves on an even keel mentally. Everyone has different learning styles and the shift from books and powerpoints to practical role situations and role playing reflects that.

Think of it a driving lessons around the supermarket car park against driving lessons on the motorway. Your personal learning style may suit the M1 but others may be more suited to ASDA'a car park
 
Owen Webster said:
In what way are there people who 'think they know everything on refereeing'? I'm sure every single 'level 7/8' referee, myself included, does not think this
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I'm with you 100% on this, Owen...it was a pretty crass comment from svenny....but he did confess to having a bad day at work :)
 
I have a dream that one day, on this here forum, that the little young referees and the bigger older referees will be able to join hands with each other as brothers (and sisters) of the whistle and discuss and debate the magic booklet free from prejudices such as ageism and not plunge into arguments about age. :D

I have a dream today!

Like to throw in a paraphrased and mutated martin luther king quote once per day...
 
Pierluigi said:
I am definitely keen to get the qualification @Owen Webster with the certain intention of helping the younger lads when I can (mid-week games would certainly allow me to do this). There are a couple of others (aged early 20s) who already have it!

Without offending some assessors on here such as @lincs22 and @Brian Hamilton I do think there is an argument to say that there may be an advantage to young 7/8s being assessed by someone such as myself. With all the experience older assessors may have the likelihood is they refereed for 15-20 years from their mid 30s until they were in their mid 50s. Even with such experience you cant escape from the fact that they have had no experience of what its like to be a 'young referee'. Being a young referee comes with its unique challenges and pressures that it can be difficult for an adult to relate to. I'm also someone that has been deemed good enough to referee at a semi-professional level so I must be doing something right on the pitch and would therefore hopefully be seen as appropriate to give sound advice certainly to those officiating in junior OA or youth football. Let's not forget that their are a lot of Supply League assessors out there that have not refereed at that level themselves. Yet they are deemed appropriate to assess at that level. Surely their experience could equally be called into question!
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To assess at a certain level you have to have officiated at that level not necessarily refereed at that level. So you can have been an assistant. Although The FA is adopting a more rigid stance, it is possible to be an assessor at a higher level, where needs dictate ;)

As for me being older, it's just a number. I'm still daft and mischievous when I feel like it. Did I mention I've just won tickets to Glastonbury and can't go? Peeved at that. instead I'm sending my wife, daughter, son and grandson in my place lol

You're right about you having a greater empathy with a younger referee. You will be able to relate to them more effectively than me however I have more experience and knowledge of what it takes out on the park to progress. The difference is that you can acquire that experience and knowledge, whereas I will only continue to get older. I will however not get out of touch with the laws, etc. as I stay current through being a tutor. Go do your assessors course but I do think, like Lincs22 said, you might add more value by mentoring for a while as well (also not as manay reports to write!!!).
 
hattersfan said:
If experience counts for far more than level, does that mean that Brian, who has been refereeing for x number of years (sorry to use you as an example Brian, just trying to illustrate my point). Is a better referee than certain members of the select group who have only been refereeing for 9 or 10 years?
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I am though, I just couldn't pass the fitness tests ;)
 
I'd hardly say it was "crass" fella. Merely an observation from viewing numerous threads that seem to get out of hand. I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm here to pick up tips and advice from other experienced referees. Simples!
 
svenny76 said:
I'd hardly say it was "crass" fella. Merely an observation from viewing numerous threads that seem to get out of hand. I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm here to pick up tips and advice from other experienced referees. Simples!
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I see what you mean regarding the threads, especially 'leniency' ones etc, but it's a little unfair to say that differing approaches and opinions to youth football means we think we know everything about refereeing...
 
I leave for a few days and return to stuff like this utter ********!

Firstly, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion. Regardless of whether they're an up-and-coming level 7/8, new level 4, happy-as-you-are level 5, or above and beyond that.

Equally, if someone feels that their perception on here is that young 7/8's know everything, they're entitled to think so! (As it so happens, I'd tend to agree. Far too many young newly-qualified referees think they know everything, both on & off here. Why do I think this? Because I was that arrogant 18/19 year old!)

Furthermore, if someone wishes to become an assessor, who the hell thinks they have the right to say no? How long ago was Pierluigi officiating at L7? 2 years. Therefore, he 'should' have extremely good knowledge of what's required to progress from that level! Yes, I do think that there will be some referees who would sneer at the mere thought of a 19-year-old newly-achieved level 4 coming to assess them - but guess what? They're highly unlikely to be putting in for assessments! Because, if someone wants to progress - they'll be keen for any advice to push them up the ladder!

Seriously, the amount of utter drivel that has been posted on this thread is nothing short of embarrassing!

Oh, and finally, if a moderator asks you to do something forum-based, do not shoot them down merely because they've only been in the role 5 minutes!!


RANT OVER!
 
You weren't away for long, Dan, were you? Nice for you to be back :D I agree with what you're saying though.
 
How can you agree with him, Owen, when he's just hammered home his point about know-it-all level 7's and 8's

for a moderator, that rant was pretty immoderate

clearly, someone's having a bad week
 
I'm gunna now join in this dispute, I have tried not to!!

I feel that some of the posts made have probably been made a little harshly and just thrown out there. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you like it or not (incl. mine here about some of the posts, I'm just voicing my opinions). Just because a L7 or 8 may be saying something does not mean that is a completely reasonable point. I don't think that the level of any referee should base what you think about their opinion. My best example for this is a talk I went to where Anthony Taylor was there. If someone asked him a question, he would simply answer "Why are you asking just me? We are all referees in this room, so what do you think?" This is a L1, FIFA awarded referee who is putting levels aside and seeing everyone as a referee, which is how it should be.

I don't think age or level matters at all. And some of the posts here have made me feel like people have actually looked at posts I may have made and other members too, and because of our level or age thought what a load of rubbish, look at their level. As I said, I think this is completely unfair. But, if someone does think that please voice that and I'd be happy to post on this thread or message to you some information about me which may be able to add some credibility to some posts I make, and other members too. Now please don't take this in the wrong way at all, I am not trying to blow my own trumpet here, as to say, I don't want to make myself seem something that I am not at all, I'm not a know it all referee at all, and I'm always open to advice and learning new things, all the time. The point I am making is that members seem to be judging people because of their level or age, rather than the quality of their posts, and that is obviously quite simply wrong.

I'd be happy for a member to dispute this, I'm 100% open to that, and please do if you feel that way, I'd like to be able discuss this if you felt that way.

I don't think I have been involved in a non-refereeing dispute on this forum yet, but this thread made me feel like posts on here may have not been valued at all unfairly, and so I felt I had to comment.
 
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haywain said:
How can you agree with him, Owen, when he's just hammered home his point about know-it-all level 7's and 8's

for a moderator, that rant was pretty immoderate

clearly, someone's having a bad week
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Well I agreed with the all of the rest of it, not really that bit at all but I didn't really want to raise it...

EDIT: To be perfectly honest, I find belittling the opinion of somebody younger simply because of age more arrogant than actually voicing an opinion. Not only that, but I have yet to find a piece of evidence to suggest that us 'younger' referees think we know everything, but there you go... if we really did, there'd be no need for us to be on this forum!
 
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... and here was me thinking that you guys just came on here to point at the old folk :)
 
haywain said:
How can you agree with him, Owen, when he's just hammered home his point about know-it-all level 7's and 8's

for a moderator, that rant was pretty immoderate

clearly, someone's having a bad week
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What have you been smoking Haywain and where can I get some??

I said everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Mine, in regards to your point, was made clearly.
Quite simply, if I did know it all, I wouldn't have been bombed off as a L4! I should be a prime example to all that regardless of how well you've done getting to 4, there's still a damn sight more to learn.
 
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