Junior/Youth Goalkeeper dancing with the ball at his feet!

[Mooseybaby]

The keeper for my son's u14s team has a habit of waiting with the ball at his feet until an attacker gets close before picking it up. Absolutely nothing wrong with it in law. There are however occasions where he leaves a bit to close, which often results in a few verbals and shoulder barges by both players.

Whilst most referees wouldn't punish a keeper's theatrics and taunts in this instances, I can understand why when faced with the situation a referee might. Seems to be a very grey area and open to interpretation as to what exactly constitutes "shows a lack of respect for the game"!

In a middle I did last year, attacking team over hit through ball, nearest attacker gave up chase and keeper stood with the ball at his feet before attacking team finally decided to give the keeper the hurry up. Player turned round to me and said "ref, he's wasting time", he looked a bit bemused when I responded "Ball is still in play, so he can waste as much time as he likes"

 

[Mintyref]

This is where referees are so different. You think it's ok for a player to do what the keeper did but others would not agree.

For me i asked myself "why did the keeper do that"? Was it necessary?

Where is the offence? Don't use USB because it's not.........

 

[RustyRef]

To be honest this strikes me as one of those scenarios where a referee posts a situation on here where he has made a controversial decision, asking for opinions. The vast majority of posters and referees disagree with what he did but he digs in his heels and admits that he was right, which does beg the question why bother posting it as a question in the first place?

Problems find referees easy enough, there is no need to go looking for problems in my opinion.

 

[DanCohen17]

It's legal to consume time in this manner WITHOUT the USB (dancing and sarcastic comment).

If the same incident happened again and it was 1-0 i would still give the card and the IDFK.

If my incident happened without the dancing or comment i would be doing nothing as nothing would be against the LOTG.

So what you're saying is, dancing & sarcastic comments result in a YC? Do you punish every sarcastic comment made by a player to an opposition player with a YC?
Just my opinion, but you were wrong here and you've gone looking for stuff when it wasn't there.

Problems find referees easy enough, there is no need to go looking for problems in my opinion.

This.

 

[Peter Grove]

Seems to be a very grey area and open to interpretation as to what exactly constitutes "shows a lack of respect for the game"!

This, for me, is the crux of the matter. The actions of the keeper seem to show a lack of respect for the opponent but does that, by extension, also mean he is showing a lack of respect for the game? I can see arguments on both sides but since it's not absolutely clear to me that respect for the game is 100% the same as respect for the opponent, I would be inclined to go down the route suggested by others already - give the player a warning first, then caution only if he persists.

 

[OIREF!]

Let me ask a question. It's 1-0 in the final minute to the GK's team and he does the same thing, in a legal but effective manner to waste time. What's your decision then @Kent Ref ?

Nonsense - there is no such offence as wasting time. The offence of delaying the restart of play does not apply as the ball is in play throughout the described incident.

 

[Twinblade]

Nothing in it for me, I might, depending on the attackers response to his comment have a little word in passing but nothing more.

That said, I can perhaps see the logic behind the OP actions, he does it to prevent any escalation, as next time the keeper does it, the attacker isn't quite as forgiving, dives in, risks sending off and injuring the goalkeeper.

 

[Peter Grove]

there is no such offence as wasting time.

You're right, there isn't - but there used to be and as far I recall, it was reserved pretty much exclusively for goalkeepers. Maybe @DanCohen17 is harking back to those days.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

You're right, there isn't - but there used to be and as far I recall, it was reserved pretty much exclusively for goalkeepers. Maybe @DanCohen17 is harking back to those days.

I dont want to speak for @DanCohen17 but i cant see anywhere where he has said that time wasting is an offence. He used a hypothetical situation and mentioned the goal keeper wasting time.

 

[DanCohen17]

Nonsense - there is no such offence as wasting time. The offence of delaying the restart of play does not apply as the ball is in play throughout the described incident.

You're right, there isn't - but there used to be and as far I recall, it was reserved pretty much exclusively for goalkeepers. Maybe @DanCohen17 is harking back to those days.

As Cheshire says (quoted below), when did I say it was an offence? I actually said, and you quoted it OIREF, a legal way to waste time. Every keeper does it. They keep the ball on the ground by their feet, waiting for the striker to close them down before picking. Read a post properly before piping up like that next time.

I dont want to speak for @DanCohen17 but i cant see anywhere where he has said that time wasting is an offence. He used a hypothetical situation and mentioned the goal keeper wasting time.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Oh how I laughed when I read this thread but that's probably an offence on the OP's field.

Totally over the top reaction. If next time, he's a bit slow and the attacker catches him, there's his lesson, not a caution. And is "no chance mate" really a sarcastic remark???

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I think there's a certain level of riling up the opponents which is part of the game......I would suggest this falls more into the 'silly' category, I'm not seeing these actions as overly antagonistic, certainly not enough for referee intervention.

If you think it is highly antagonistic (and perhaps the game itself has some bearing here), perhaps a quick shout of 'knock it off keeper! No more of that!' will look after matters.

 

[Peter Grove]

I dont want to speak for @DanCohen17 but i cant see anywhere where he has said that time wasting is an offence. He used a hypothetical situation and mentioned the goal keeper wasting time.

Well by the same token, I can't see anywhere where I said that @DanCohen17 said timewasting was an offence. The main point I was trying to make was that although timewasting is not an offence now, it used to be in the past and it specifically involved goalkeepers.

 

[Kent Ref]

Where is the offence? Don't use USB because it's not.........

Then you and i have a different view of what shows a lack of respect for the game.

Out of interest, in your opinion, what scenarios are a display of a lack of respect for the game? Once you give me some examples i think we can see that we have a total difference of opinion.

What about a player from the team winning shouting "can we play you every week"?

Remember this is youth football not adults.

 

[DB]

Do the laws differ between youth and adult football?

I think the general consensus for yellow carding the "dancing" keeper is harsh. I don't think it falls into USB. Yeah, the player is taking the piss a little bit but does that really mean you have to book him and therefore hit him with a £10 fine? Not in my books. A quick word "let's get on with it please" would be fine. Then, after the game catch the player before he leaves the field and give him a little advice if that is what you feel is necessary. Help to educate them. Even in open age football in respected leagues down here, I am often seen offering advice to players and managers. It bridges the gap between them and us; a gap which neither party really bothers to try and bridge.

Just because we have cards does not mean we have to use them. Sometimes, we are left with no choice but to use them but if they can be avoided, manage it.

I've heard of refs comparing stats, working out how much money they've made their county etc. I see signatures on here "reds: 212 yellows 1 pens 2514" which shows me that these people are almost proud of it; like a striker and his goals. Where cards can be avoided, manage the situation. Talk to the players and treat them like humans. Do that and your refereeing career will have much fewer hiccups.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Then you and i have a different view of what shows a lack of respect for the game.

Out of interest, in your opinion, what scenarios are a display of a lack of respect for the game? Once you give me some examples i think we can see that we have a total difference of opinion.

What about a player from the team winning shouting "can we play you every week"?

Remember this is youth football not adults.

No you and everyone who has posted to your thread has a different view of what shows a lack of respect for the game.

You do know that people play for enjoyment and kids have a different idea of what is funny and what is rude/disrespectful?

I really love people who come on this forum, make a first (or first few) post and then fight back against the feedback provided by other users

 

[DB]

No you and everyone who has posted to your thread has a different view of what shows a lack of respect for the game.

You do know that people play for enjoyment and kids have a different idea of what is funny and what is rude/disrespectful?

I really love people who come on this forum, make a first (or first few) post and then fight back against the feedback provided by other users

Yes!

 

[Kent Ref]

If football is about enjoyment (it should be) why would a player "enjoy" doing this? I don't understand how doing this could be anything but an attempt to take the mick or even worse, taunt. The player was 17 or possibly 18 so would know what he was doing.

Maybe some examples as to what "shows a lack of respect for the game" would be helpful. This way i could see what others have in their mind of FIFA's LOTG edict.

Part of the problem is all refs have a different life story so have a different version of what's acceptable. We get this with the offinabus discussions.

I come from a strict boarding school and military background so have high standards of behaviour "built-in". Unlike others who may not have had that upbringing. When i reffed in the Navy i think i only ever did two cautions for dissent but Forces people are a class above the average as they have been trained to accept discipline.

We're all different. I still think the keeper here was wrong and deserved a caution. He may learn from it but he may not. I have spoke to some close ref friends and all say he has done something wrong (the keeper) and they have different ways of dealing with it (like others on this board) but we all agree the keepers actions are wrong.

What surprises me is not many on here think the keeper's actions warranted any action.

Some on here have said "have a word" etc and if he does it again - then what? How does that work?

That seems inconsistent to me as you should try and be consistent in any one game. In this scenario you would be doing two different things for the same scenario.

 

[DB]

@Kent Ref I regularly get 2-3 cautions a game in my Navy Fixtures... The majority are usually for dissent. You would think that the training would kick in, unfortunately not in quite a few cases. I've not had one military fixture yet where I haven't pulled a yellow out. Thankfully, no reds at the moment.

If he does it again, that's where you start going down the formal route. Go ovrvto the player and have a chat when the ball goes out, bring in the skipper of you feel it's necessary.

The kid is just taking the piss; he's being a kid. That's it. What if he kept the ball at his feet and then picked it up when the player approached? Would you caution that? A few step-overs, it's just a bit of ****iness and arrogance. Next time, the attacker will smash the keeper... that will be his lesson learnt.

It's the general opinion of most of us that the sanction you imposed was harsh. Accept that, but try and understand why we all think that way.

 

[GraemeS]

I've heard of refs comparing stats, working out how much money they've made their county etc. I see signatures on here "reds: 212 yellows 1 pens 2514" which shows me that these people are almost proud of it; like a striker and his goals. Where cards can be avoided, manage the situation. Talk to the players and treat them like humans. Do that and your refereeing career will have much fewer hiccups.

Oooh...as someone who does track their stats, I think you've totally missed the mark on why most people here do it. I track the numbers because I think it helps my development by telling me if I'm being too soft over the course of a season.

And actually, looking at the number now, I do think I'm being a little soft. 2 cautions a game feels low to me when reflecting on how tough some matches have been. And of the 3 card-free games, I can only be confident that the third was really played to such a high level of sportsmanship that it deserved to be card-free, with the first two both being down to me backing out of some "marginal" decisions or choosing to give players a lifeline when I should have got the cards out.

This is the kind of stats-based reflection I'm interested in, and I hope will allow me to not make the same mistakes again. And on the flip side, I have absolutely no idea how much the two red cards I've shown will have earnt Essex FA..