Iran v Portugal

[Ciley Myrus]

No to both of those, unless either of the other offences was a potential red card offence (in which case they should have been recommended for a separate review anyway) because otherwise they are not in the 4 categories of reviewable incidents.

So in a perverse way, Ronaldo has been cautioned for adopting aggressive attitude or reckless or whatever, even though they are not reviewable incidents...

Am not trying to twist your wise words, as, I accept thats the process. It just does not sit easy with me.

 

[Big Cat]

My point is that the issue isn't with the process. The process works. It's the referees making the decision who are getting it wrong.

VAR itself is a fantastic idea but the problems are being caused by human error. The human error is refereeing decisions which exist with or without VAR

Put it this way.... a penalty is given correctly via VAR in one game, but another is given incorrectly the next game. The VAR process is identical for both incidents but only one factor has changed and that's the person using it

The process fundamentally involves humans making subjective calls. Therefore it is the process which is to blame in the first instance and human error in the second

 

[Big Cat]

When a plane falls out the sky, even when the pilots are at fault, the final report usually focuses on changes to Standard Operating Procedures. The pilots are seen as a human factor, but they're only as good as the processes they follow. Occasionally a process is not followed and it's usually discovered that this is attributable to flaws in that process

 

[JH]

VAR doesn't make decisions, referee's do.

VAR stands for Video Assistant Referee, it is a person, that makes a decision.

 

[alexgr]

I hate this weird reliance on going to look at a screen. The Ronaldo incident can quite clearly be cleared up in 10 seconds by an competent ref (even a Level 7 should be seeing that's a red), and VAR should tell ref (red 7 elbow into face, red card). This whole thing of going to screens to look and not trusting other people's qualified judgments is weird. Just caught up on highlights and can't for the life of me figure out why Iran's penalty was given.

 

[santa sangria]

My point is that the issue isn't with the process. The process works. It's the referees making the decision who are getting it wrong.

VAR itself is a fantastic idea but the problems are being caused by human error. The human error is refereeing decisions which exist with or without VAR

Put it this way.... a penalty is given correctly via VAR in one game, but another is given incorrectly the next game. The VAR process is identical for both incidents but only one factor has changed and that's the person using it

My point is that the issue isn't with the process. The process works. It's the referees making the decision who are getting it wrong.

You mean the VAR referees are getting it wrong, yes, as it's the VAR referee who is getting the decisions wrong by recommending reviews when there should not be.

 

[markref]

I thought the look on Ronaldo's face when he was cautioned said it all! He seemed to find it unbelievable that he was cautioned even though the contact was not negligible and he was therefore lucky not to be sent off. Having said that, it wasn't nearly as bad as the player made out.

Just imagine if the opponent had done that to him - he'd still be rolling around 24 hours later. If the player then got away with just a yellow then there would have been uproar.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I hate this weird reliance on going to look at a screen. The Ronaldo incident can quite clearly be cleared up in 10 seconds by an competent ref (even a Level 7 should be seeing that's a red), and VAR should tell ref (red 7 elbow into face, red card). This whole thing of going to screens to look and not trusting other people's qualified judgments is weird. Just caught up on highlights and can't for the life of me figure out why Iran's penalty was given.

I class myself as competent. With or without a review, am not sending off Ronaldo there.

 

[JH]

Dear all,

For those who felt at kick-off the referee looked the part, please apolgise to the forum....

That was the worst refereeing performance at a WC since the 1990 final between Germany and Argentina, when the referee was a relative of the Referees Committee Chairman. Both the referee and VAR need to be on a plane home now - #end of fifa career.

In fact, it was worse than Poll 3 card trick, Lampard non-goal, Schumacher’s reckless shoulder charge - god there has been some bad performances....

I don't see your point. I said he looked the part. He did.

I didn't say looking the part would help him in any way.

 

[JH]

This whole thing of going to screens to look and not trusting other people's qualified judgments is weird. Just caught up on highlights and can't for the life of me figure out why Iran's penalty was given.

The referee should always have the final say, it's their match.

 

[RobOda]

AR itself is a fantastic idea but the problems are being caused by human error. The human error is refereeing decisions which exist with or without VAR

I'm a bit worried about going down that route - I've seen comments from fans going this way as well. My concern is that people are discrediting 'referees' as a whole. There's an element that will never be satisfied with human referees, there's certainly an element that wants the Laws of football 'tightened up'. I do feel removing human error - or human officials from the game and/or tightening up the laws would essentially lose the very thing that makes football such a wonderful game (and drama).


I think we shouldn't be so quick to have a view that referees are bad and will always have a mistake in them - and that this is a 'bad thing'. There's barely enough respect for referees as it is.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

After the dust settles on this one you have to sit back and question the ref in somehow getting his mind changed from his initial non-decisions. Whatever happened to gut instinct! Worked for me!

 

[santa sangria]

After the dust settles on this one you have to sit back and question the ref in somehow getting his mind changed from his initial non-decisions. Whatever happened to gut instinct! Worked for me!

That's a major problem with VAR... and will be a much greater problem with VAR if it is used more widely in anything resembling its current form.

It's not the ref's fault he changed his mind. It's VAR's fault. Without it, he wouldn't have changed his mind!

 

[GraemeS]

After the dust settles on this one you have to sit back and question the ref in somehow getting his mind changed from his initial non-decisions. Whatever happened to gut instinct! Worked for me!

Did it really though? You might have felt in control, but you can't talk about gut instinct as any relation to if you were right or not?

 

[santa sangria]

A few choice comments from the Fiver:

"Portugal might not be in the knockout stages had He been sent off after a VAR review against Iran. “The reality is you stop the game for VAR and there is an elbow,” fumed Iran’s manager Carlos Queiroz. “An elbow is a red card in the rules. The rules don’t say if it is Messi or [Him]. Going back to the story about my daughter, I need to know if I am a grandfather or not. I don’t want to know if my daughter is ‘a little bit’ pregnant. The decisions must be clear for everybody, for the people. In my opinion, Mr Infantino and Fifa, VAR is not going well. That is the reality.”

Possibly the biggest problem with VAR, apart from all of it, is the random nature of what is and isn’t sent to the on-field referee for review. Some increasingly desperate VAR advocates have suggested this is OK because it livens things up. Maybe we should adopt a similar judicial lottery in everyday life. Sure, you might get a 10-year stretch for telling the self-checkout you bought a carrot rather than an avocado, or merely a quiet warning for murder, but it would sure liven things up."

LOL

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I find it confusing that, for me, Ronaldo could/should have been booked several times already, possibily double yellowed, yet he gets booked on a red card review for something am still not convinced that. A> var is allowed to yc for and b> for me, was not even a yc offence, far less any notion of red!

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I haven’t heard of one person who thought the second pen was handball! Someone upstairs in VARSE Towers needs to give his head a shake if he even thinks that was anything else but accidental.

 

[GraemeS]

I find it confusing that, for me, Ronaldo could/should have been booked several times already, possibily double yellowed, yet he gets booked on a red card review for something am still not convinced that. A> var is allowed to yc for and b> for me, was not even a yc offence, far less any notion of red!

You've had the "how" explained directly too you earlier in the thread, why are you still insisting it's confusing?

Agree with you on no red but I think yellow is fine - catch a defender in the face with your arm/elbow, a card is always possible.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I haven’t heard of one person who thought the second pen was handball! Someone upstairs in VARSE Towers needs to give his head a shake if he even thinks that was anything else but accidental.

It be good to hear from the guy in truck who suggested a second look, and then the referee, as to why and how that can be given. Its fits NONE of any of the tick boxes when considering handball!!

 

[Ciley Myrus]

You've had the "how" explained directly too you earlier in the thread, why are you still insisting it's confusing?

Agree with you on no red but I think yellow is fine - catch a defender in the face with your arm/elbow, a card is always possible.

No offence to what I read earlier. But, I would rather hear it from much higher powers. It defies logic that VAR can/should only be used for a certain situation, yet you can still recieve a punishment for a different offence!