A&H

Level 4 - What Happens?

O

OllyChanot

New Member
Level 5 Referee
Morning all

I am currently going from level 5 to level four and hoping to be promoted in 2025.

Just wanting to find out, what really happens when you get promoted to level four such as league changes, how you get games, just a bit of an overview

Good luck to anyone who has a game over this weekend!
 
The Referee Store
The FA are responsible for appointments at Level 4, in conjunction with local Appointments Secretaries. MOAS is used for all Level 4 appointments, whether refereeing or acting as Assistant Referee at Step 3 or 4.
Extra travel is very likely, dependent upon your location.
Clubs and players are semi-professional, with a few even full time.
Good administration is expected, and essential.
Good luck with your promotion aspirations.
 
OllyChanot said:
Morning all

I am currently going from level 5 to level four and hoping to be promoted in 2025.

Just wanting to find out, what really happens when you get promoted to level four such as league changes, how you get games, just a bit of an overview

Good luck to anyone who has a game over this weekend!
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The FA will assign you to a Supply League based on your Home Postcode. Geographically, I'm on the fringe of both the Combined Counties and Spartan Leagues, so I've had one season in each. Each Supply League has it's own Appointment Secretary. The FA assign Step3/4 AR appointments each month, then the Supply League appoint middles from whose leftover
In my area, travel is no worse, but time commitment goes up a bit because you're expected to be there 75 to 90 minutes before KO and to stay after games for hospitality. Personally, I don't really value the hospitality piece. It's unnecessary and sometimes uncomfortable for everyone

I don't mind running the line. On that basis, the upsides of being a L4 far outweigh the downsides. My first season was dominated by AR appointments, but my second season has been a lot more varied

Depending on your Supply League, you might Referee Step 6 only. In my area, we Referee Step 5 and 6. I've found Step 5 games easier to Ref that Step 6 as behaviour and overall standards are better at Step 5
Step 6 can be messy in all respects and the ARs are not as good
 
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In addition to the above, as opposed to then applying for promotion, you’ll automatically be in a league table with other referees in your geographical pool.
There will be 2 league tables, one for observer marks and one for club marks. Promotion will then be given to those highest on the observer marks table whilst not languishing near the bottom of the club marks.
Similarly, if you’re near the bottom of the observer marks, unless you’re doing very well on club marks you could be reclassified back to 5.
Level 4 is where things start to become far more serious in terms of commitment, but it’s fantastic is you’re prepared to offer that commitment.
 
Having run the line regularly on the supply league.

It is a massive step up in commitment. Be there 90 mins early, an observer and a coach on pretty much every game.

So much politics and gaming the system to get better observer scores. Refs in the middle and even linos getting extremely emotional.

Never ending email chains.

Club managers/coaches showing their PhD in psychology to throw you off.

The ceremonial stuff needs to be rigidly followed, subs at the half way line, keeping the dugouts tidy and the discipline needs to be kept in line.

Also I find the managers are knowledgeable and hyper aware of what the referee team is doing at all times.

Feels really good when it goes well. A long night when it doesn't.

Had a secretary follow me to my car once for not putting money behind the bar (still had the can I bought in my hand).

Having reread what I wrote, it looks negative and it isn't meant to be. It is quite a rush, you just don't have friends when money starts getting involved.
 
Will add a quick why I like it though.

More money. Higher standard of play. The coaches and observers give really solid feedback usually backed with a lot of experience on their end. Usually a decent crowd.

The refereeing team you are apart of is usually much more experienced.
 
OldNavyRef said:
Having run the line regularly on the supply league.

It is a massive step up in commitment. Be there 90 mins early, an observer and a coach on pretty much every game.

So much politics and gaming the system to get better observer scores. Refs in the middle and even linos getting extremely emotional.

Never ending email chains.

Club managers/coaches showing their PhD in psychology to throw you off.

The ceremonial stuff needs to be rigidly followed, subs at the half way line, keeping the dugouts tidy and the discipline needs to be kept in line.

Also I find the managers are knowledgeable and hyper aware of what the referee team is doing at all times.

Feels really good when it goes well. A long night when it doesn't.

Had a secretary follow me to my car once for not putting money behind the bar (still had the can I bought in my hand).

Having reread what I wrote, it looks negative and it isn't meant to be. It is quite a rush, you just don't have friends when money starts getting involved.
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Agree with the majority of this. It’s my first season at 4 and whilst I’ve enjoyed the better standard, spectators, neutral assistants etc, there’s a lot more outside of the match day itself which I’ve found has taken away a chunk of the enjoyment, something I didn’t have last season. That being said, I enjoy this level more than being at a 5, the good outweighs the bad
 
It is just a long day.

Games can be an hour away. Need to be there 90mins early, plus leave some wiggle room for traffic.

I find myself leave for 3pm kick offs at 12.30

Then once the game finishes you end up in a big debrief, shower then hospitality.

So finish at 6/7, get home for 8

Plus we get flat fees, no mileage.

Nearly 8 hours out of your house for 20 quid.
 
OldNavyRef said:
It is just a long day.

Games can be an hour away. Need to be there 90mins early, plus leave some wiggle room for traffic.

I find myself leave for 3pm kick offs at 12.30

Then once the game finishes you end up in a big debrief, shower then hospitality.

So finish at 6/7, get home for 8

Plus we get flat fees, no mileage.

Nearly 8 hours out of your house for 20 quid.
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£20? We get £45 flat fee to run the line for step 5 and 6 and when I do the middle on step 6, we get £60.
 
OldNavyRef said:
It is just a long day.

Games can be an hour away. Need to be there 90mins early, plus leave some wiggle room for traffic.

I find myself leave for 3pm kick offs at 12.30

Then once the game finishes you end up in a big debrief, shower then hospitality.

So finish at 6/7, get home for 8

Plus we get flat fees, no mileage.

Nearly 8 hours out of your house for 20 quid.
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It gets longer the higher the level you go. If you get to the National League it isn't uncommon for the referee to want you there by midday for a 3pm kick off. I had one game as 4th official where I left home at 09:30 and got home at 21:00, all for the princely sum of £28.50.

They tended to be a bit more sensible for midweek evening games, but realistically you will still need to be there by 18:00 for a 19:45 kick off. Given almost every game I did involved a trip on at least part of the M25 I had to leave plenty of time. I live in North London but had midweek games at Salisbury, Eastleigh, Forest Green, Dover and Whitehawk, amongst others, so they were frequently very long days, often not getting home until well after midnight.
 
Just to clear up our fees. Flat rate of £65 for Ref and £50 for assistants. But I deducted £0.40 per mile for mileage once on a particularly far game and worked out I was getting £18 for a game. 70mins of motorway driving each way.

Being a farther of 2, that commitment is pretty monumental. Plus I sometimes get 2/3 a week.

I think as I'm a level 5, I get the benefit of blocking out my calendar on MOAS not having to worry about availability for promotion.

My most hated part about it, is when the manager decides they wants a yellow card. They just keep pushing and pushing, you can literally say anything and they will just keep going till they get that yellow.
 
RustyRef said:
It gets longer the higher the level you go. If you get to the National League it isn't uncommon for the referee to want you there by midday for a 3pm kick off. I had one game as 4th official where I left home at 09:30 and got home at 21:00, all for the princely sum of £28.50.

They tended to be a bit more sensible for midweek evening games, but realistically you will still need to be there by 18:00 for a 19:45 kick off. Given almost every game I did involved a trip on at least part of the M25 I had to leave plenty of time. I live in North London but had midweek games at Salisbury, Eastleigh, Forest Green, Dover and Whitehawk, amongst others, so they were frequently very long days, often not getting home until well after midnight.
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Saw a Whitehawk match two years ago. Amazing atmosphere. Brilliant club. I was in with the tin din singers. Hilarious bantz songs (“You’re just a lorry park in Kent” to Ashford etc.)
 
I got somewhat shouted down last time I said this, but L4 is at least in part designed as a test of commitment for higher levels. Are you prepared to put in the time and workload of an L3 but without a significant jump in pay? If so, they can put you forward for L3 and above knowing you're "not in it for the money" and if not, you can go back to L5 and stick with similar payment but for a much smaller time commitment.

L4 is tough by design, and it's worth doing as part of the process of getting to higher levels. I'd never recommend it if it's the limit of your ambition though.
 
The L4 experience also varies across the country - not the AR bit, where you will do Step 3 and 4 lines wherever you are. Middles look very different

In some parts of the South East, you will only do Step 5, but just on one league so you see the same teams over and over again.

At the other extreme, in the North West, you are lucky to get a Step 5 fixture and will mainly do Step 6 and 7 - the latter being little more than Parks football.

It levels itself out again at L3 in terms of the leagues refereed, but generally the further North and West you go, the fewer fixtures you will get
 
Quarryref said:
At the other extreme, in the North West, you are lucky to get a Step 5 fixture and will mainly do Step 6 and 7 - the latter being little more than Parks football.
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Yeah - plenty of refs spending their seasons with a range of Step 7-6 games up here in the NW from what I've been told. It's a battle, but there is a massive number of L4s here
 
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