I think some people are forgetting that referees exist to serve football, not the other way around. Most clubs at steps 6 to 3 aren't wealthy, they struggle to survive financially and rely on volunteers running them. If they were suddenly forced to pay match officials even close to minimum wage they'd go out of business within weeks. Especially as people are talking about the amount of time they are away from home, that would mean a step 5 club would be shelling out an unsustainable amount on match fees.
Level 4 - What Happens?
- Thread starter OllyChanot
- Start date
Gabriel
Well-Known Member
I can’t afford it. I ref 3 games a week sometimes more to support my family juggling that with school. It is privilege to do so however. My privilege doesn’t come from background, it comes from not being the one paying taxes but also that I worked hard to get a decent education, which is not easy in my area.
Gabriel
Well-Known Member
I can hand on heart say my league would not abuse their refs like that. 90% of the teams and refs are from deprived areas but I do know some would. I am lucky to be in a position where losing one match fee is not overly troubling, although I do have to make up for it elsewhere
Guess that depends on your employment contract and whether you are paid per hour or salaried. In my previous role I worked a lot in Scotland and that was all travel in my time, either on the red eye flight or the overnight sleeper, and I certainly didn't get any extra money for it. I've travelled to Singapore, Soul and Tokyo for work, as well as multiple locations in Europe, and never been paid a penny extra for it.
@Gabriel you are a total enigma to me!
I cannot work out if you are 15 or 51; just starting out in refereeing or with the experience of 10 years on the FIFA list; living in one of the most affluent or most deprived areas of the country with enormous or little opportunity; money to burn or living hand to mouth to support your family.
Gabriel... man of mystery. Or woman.
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Gabriel
Well-Known Member
The amount of people that say this makes me wonder if I’m doing something seriously wrong. I’m 15, started refereeing in England in August after a years wait due to recovery from a major health issue. I had previous experience in another country where I got as high as possible for a young ref. Im not from a well off family but also not struggling in a council house with mould. I ref to bring extra money in to support my parents who both care for their elderly parents who have little to no money themselves. I go to a good school but that was not expected. My parents grew up in council houses so I am doing well comparatively. Life story over, hope that answers your questions!@Gabriel you are a total enigma to me!
I cannot work out if you are 15 or 51; just starting out in refereeing or with the experience of 10 years on the FIFA list; living in one of the lost affluent or most deprived areas of the country with enormous or little opportunity; money to burn or living hand to mouth to support your family.
Gabriel... man of mystery. Or woman.
Edit: last question I forgot to answer from the end of your post: man/boy
The amount of people that say this makes me wonder if I’m doing something seriously wrong. I’m 15, started refereeing in England in August after a years wait due to recovery from a major health issue. I had previous experience in another country where I got as high as possible for a young ref. Im not from a well off family but also not struggling in a council house with mould. I ref to bring extra money in to support my parents who both care for their elderly parents who have little to no money themselves. I go to a good school but that was not expected. My parents grew up in council houses so I am doing well comparatively. Life story over, hope that answers your questions!
Edit: last question I forgot to answer from the end of your post: man/boy
More than answers. Nothing wrong with being an enigma. I dream of being an enigma!
Still an enigma
And a striking resemblance to Michael Oliver to boot@Gabriel you are a total enigma to me!
I cannot work out if you are 15 or 51; just starting out in refereeing or with the experience of 10 years on the FIFA list; living in one of the lost affluent or most deprived areas of the country with enormous or little opportunity; money to burn or living hand to mouth to support your family.
Gabriel... man of mystery. Or woman.
I agree that some of the fees paid is definitely driven up by demand and in some situations rightfully so.
Football drives a lot of refs away and the fees are a sort of reap what you sow situation. I get the feeling a lot of clubs aren't happy paying the higher fees and it does suck a little for the volunteer communities, but it isn't an easy gig for the refs.
Only certain types of people can be referees. Definitely need a certain kind of personality.
When I got level 5 a higher league reached out offering £55 a middle. All the usual turn up 45/30mins before the game, and leave straight after.
Football drives a lot of refs away and the fees are a sort of reap what you sow situation. I get the feeling a lot of clubs aren't happy paying the higher fees and it does suck a little for the volunteer communities, but it isn't an easy gig for the refs.
Only certain types of people can be referees. Definitely need a certain kind of personality.
When I got level 5 a higher league reached out offering £55 a middle. All the usual turn up 45/30mins before the game, and leave straight after.
The Ginger Ref
Active Member
I've skim read the 5 pages of this thread, so feel i've earnt the right to weigh in
I became a referee because I love football and I wanted to give something back to the game that treated me well, also I enjoy learning and saw the role of the referee as a new challenge. I also saw refereeing as a way to remain involved in football without having to be fully committed (not having to do it every weekend), what I mean by this is if your a parent, coach, secretary or chair person, your time commitment is MASSIVE, and guess what, you aren't paid for any of it!
I didn't sign up to be a referee because I need the £30, or need financial recognition, whilst I appreciate that this is why others may have become referee's, the match fees are transparent and you know what you will be earning at each game and each level, and that should tell you that you aren't going to be paid enough or even the equivalent of 'living wage', if you aren't happy with the fee then it's simple, don't referee.
I would suggest that if money is your main motivator, then refereeing probably isn't the job for you because none of us are going to walk into the select group and earn £50k a year as a referee. Whether it's refereeing or a professional career, you have to start at the bottom, you have to make sacrifices, earn rubbish money and also decide whether this is the career path for you.
As for raising the point on privilege, and this gets you ahead in refereeing, I am not going to dispute that... all I will say is privilege is in every walk of life. The top level referee's may come from privileged backgrounds, they may have got a headstart, but they still had to work their backside off to get to the top. The same applies to a large majority of professional sportsmen and women, CEO's and MPs.
I became a referee because I love football and I wanted to give something back to the game that treated me well, also I enjoy learning and saw the role of the referee as a new challenge. I also saw refereeing as a way to remain involved in football without having to be fully committed (not having to do it every weekend), what I mean by this is if your a parent, coach, secretary or chair person, your time commitment is MASSIVE, and guess what, you aren't paid for any of it!
I didn't sign up to be a referee because I need the £30, or need financial recognition, whilst I appreciate that this is why others may have become referee's, the match fees are transparent and you know what you will be earning at each game and each level, and that should tell you that you aren't going to be paid enough or even the equivalent of 'living wage', if you aren't happy with the fee then it's simple, don't referee.
I would suggest that if money is your main motivator, then refereeing probably isn't the job for you because none of us are going to walk into the select group and earn £50k a year as a referee. Whether it's refereeing or a professional career, you have to start at the bottom, you have to make sacrifices, earn rubbish money and also decide whether this is the career path for you.
As for raising the point on privilege, and this gets you ahead in refereeing, I am not going to dispute that... all I will say is privilege is in every walk of life. The top level referee's may come from privileged backgrounds, they may have got a headstart, but they still had to work their backside off to get to the top. The same applies to a large majority of professional sportsmen and women, CEO's and MPs.
Great post.I've skim read the 5 pages of this thread, so feel i've earnt the right to weigh in
I became a referee because I love football and I wanted to give something back to the game that treated me well, also I enjoy learning and saw the role of the referee as a new challenge. I also saw refereeing as a way to remain involved in football without having to be fully committed (not having to do it every weekend), what I mean by this is if your a parent, coach, secretary or chair person, your time commitment is MASSIVE, and guess what, you aren't paid for any of it!
I didn't sign up to be a referee because I need the £30, or need financial recognition, whilst I appreciate that this is why others may have become referee's, the match fees are transparent and you know what you will be earning at each game and each level, and that should tell you that you aren't going to be paid enough or even the equivalent of 'living wage', if you aren't happy with the fee then it's simple, don't referee.
I would suggest that if money is your main motivator, then refereeing probably isn't the job for you because none of us are going to walk into the select group and earn £50k a year as a referee. Whether it's refereeing or a professional career, you have to start at the bottom, you have to make sacrifices, earn rubbish money and also decide whether this is the career path for you.
As for raising the point on privilege, and this gets you ahead in refereeing, I am not going to dispute that... all I will say is privilege is in every walk of life. The top level referee's may come from privileged backgrounds, they may have got a headstart, but they still had to work their backside off to get to the top. The same applies to a large majority of professional sportsmen and women, CEO's and MPs.
On the first point here, it’s no one’s main motivator. It’s not the motivator at all. I love refereeing but cannot afford to lose significant money to it. That’s not a choice thing, I simply cannot afford to referee if the fees dropped by say 10% or so.
Sure of course people worked hard, but someone from another background could work twice as hard and not even get close because of financial and cultural barriers. The FA recognises this because they’ve admitted it in several reports and have taken steps to address it.
It wouldn't necessarily have a weekly schedule, it would just mean that you'd be expected to be available on average probably all bar 1 Saturday a month for a game (that may involve leaving from 12 noon and not being back until 7pm) and at least probably 2-3 midweeks a month on Tuesday evenings (again being prepared to leave at around 5pm and not be home until midnight potentially.
There isn't a fixed schedule. If you have closed the date you aren't available, any other date you are fair game to be given an appointment. As an extreme example, I got a phone call from an appointments officer at 16:30 on a Monday asking what was doing that night. I replied nothing, just watching the football, he then said not any more, can you go to Redbridge. I could have said no, but as the date was open that probably wouldn't have landed that well.
Generally speaking it will look like what you want it to look like. In days gone by you'd get one or perhaps two step 5 middles, and then pretty much every other Saturday or midweek you'd have a line. These days I think you get less games, but you are still expected to be available most weekends and midweeks.
Absolutely. I've ballsed up and been given a game yesterday for later in the month, but I'd since arranged for family to come visit but didn't close MOAS after original appointments came out .
I now have to make apologies to my family as I'll be out on that evening reffing the game I have been appointed to.
Similar situation for me on Easter Monday. I didn't have a game on the Thursday lunch time so I agreed with the other half that we would go out with the kids. Went to purchase the tickets on Thursday afternoon and did a quick check of my email inbox first and saw that I had been given a game. She wasn't overly impressed 
I'm generally open every Tuesday/Saturday unless on holiday etc....
Typically, since we're now refereeing Step 5 and 6 games, I'm ending up with 2 or 3 Step 5/6 middles a month and 2 or 3 Step 3/4 lines. So common to end up on 6 games a month. There's a lot of games in and around Combined Counties, so it may not be the same elsewhere. It may also be that the Appt Sec has learned that mine's a name he never gets any pushback from
Moving slightly further north, currently level 4s operating in the southern area of the UCL seem to be getting approx 1 or 2 middles a month and 1 or 2 lines. Usually 3 games a month total, but think this will increase next season due to the new approach for step 6 games and the new fitness test rules for L4s.