A&H

Mong?

Player calls you a “mong”.....

  • Yellow

    Votes: 11 20.8%

  • Red

    Votes: 38 71.7%

  • Talking to....

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • Other.....

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • Total voters
    53
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Yeah, think I’m done with this conversation now. I just find it incredible that there’s referees who feel particular language is only offence based on the tone or who it’s said to, forgetting that we as referees are discussing the scenario of it being said to us, a person in a position of authority.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it’s racism, disabilities, homophobia etc, irrelevant of who you said it to. And if a word is spoken or shouted, the word hasn’t changed, it’s still offensive.
 
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If you went to work tomorrow and had a joke with your boss and just so happened to use the term "mong" as a joke because he said something silly, if he fired you would you use context as an excuse because it was a joke?, Would you expect him/her to overlook such an insulting word because it was a joke?
 
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QuaverRef said:
Yeah, think I’m done with this conversation now. I just find it incredible that there’s referees who feel particular language is only offence based on the tone or who it’s said to, forgetting that we as referees are discussing the scenario of it being said to us, a person in a position of authority.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it’s racism, disabilities, homophobia etc, irrelevant of who you said it to. And if a word is spoken or shouted, the word hasn’t changed, it’s still offensive.
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"Offense: annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to... oneself."
Offensive is taken, not given.
If a player quietly calls himself a mong, are you go to send him off? Who has he offended?
Someone mentioned it before, if a black player calls another black player (his teammate) the n word after scoring a goal, are you sending him off? Good luck with that.
 
There are plenty of city centre league's where there'd be a red card every two minutes if you have a red for anything that could be considered offensive to someone, somewhere. Context is everything. If you sent a player off for using the phrase "mong" in the Central Manchester league's where I started out playing 25 years you'd have everyone scratching their heads. It was just a common word that was considered no more offensive than "idiot". It wasnt considered in the least but offensive. Now you might argue differently on here but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't, that's just the way it was. That was the context.

I reffed a game last year where a player was called a "ginger ****". Straight red. I may even do the same for "mong" today because the word has evolved. But that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have even have raised a complaint from the player it was directed at where I'm from all those years ago.

Also, when it comes to dissent it's often the case that refs are great at saying what they would do but in reality I think most if not tolerate more than what they say on a forum. PL refs tolerate it never mind local park refs. I've heard refs been called all sorts whilst watching amateur footy or being an AR, things I'd get the cherry our for but on the day that ref decided to ignore it or not deal with it severely. That's the nature of human beings.
 
Ben448844 said:
There are plenty of city centre league's where there'd be a red card every two minutes if you have a red for anything that could be considered offensive to someone, somewhere. Context is everything. If you sent a player off for using the phrase "mong" in the Central Manchester league's where I started out playing 25 years you'd have everyone scratching their heads. It was just a common word that was considered no more offensive than "idiot". It wasnt considered in the least but offensive. Now you might argue differently on here but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't, that's just the way it was. That was the context.

I reffed a game last year where a player was called a "ginger ****". Straight red. I may even do the same for "mong" today because the word has evolved. But that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have even have raised a complaint from the player it was directed at where I'm from all those years ago.

Also, when it comes to dissent it's often the case that refs are great at saying what they would do but in reality I think most if not tolerate more than what they say on a forum. PL refs tolerate it never mind local park refs. I've heard refs been called all sorts whilst watching amateur footy or being an AR, things I'd get the cherry our for but on the day that ref decided to ignore it or not deal with it severely. That's the nature of human beings.
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Commonplace to lipread aggressive obscenities hurled in the direction of refs on TV. My tolerance is also high however, Only this morning had a player project 'you're sh1t' in the direction of an opponent, only to exclaim, 'why is it a yellow when i didn't say it to you'? To which my retort was, 'I'd be justified to send you off'!
 
JH said:
Someone mentioned it before, if a black player calls another black player (his teammate) the n word after scoring a goal, are you sending him off? Good luck with that.
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If we are deeming the N word a red card offence then it's a red card for everyone. You can't give some players a free pass.
 
Padfoot said:
There’s a massive assumption in your post......

You assume that I found being called a ‘mong’ offensive but chose to ignore it......and you would be very wrong. I didn’t consider myself offended, and given that it was said at a volume that wouldn’t be audible from more than a few yards away, I considered that anyone spectating would not have heard it and therefore be unaffected......so I dealt with it by another route......and it certainly wasn’t ignored.

And I suppose in part you can blame this very forum for my actions.

After all the robust discussions that have occurred over OFFINABUS on here, despite what some might think, I have considered all the viewpoints expressed and come to realise that much of the decision making process has to stem from the referees initial reaction to what was said......if they weren’t offended etc, then context comes into play, volume, aggression etc.
But that initial reaction is key because it will instantly filter the obviously offensive regardless of context from the grey words where context then has to be regarded.

But no one has yet answered whether they would dismiss a player for calling another player a ‘mong’?
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I will. I wouldn't if iterated in the manner you describe. Not sure whether it would tick my instant dismissal box if heard in the wrong context. I just don't know, not something I've ever heard before.
 
Ben448844 said:
There are plenty of city centre league's where there'd be a red card every two minutes if you have a red for anything that could be considered offensive to someone, somewhere. Context is everything. If you sent a player off for using the phrase "mong" in the Central Manchester league's where I started out playing 25 years you'd have everyone scratching their heads. It was just a common word that was considered no more offensive than "idiot". It wasnt considered in the least but offensive. Now you might argue differently on here but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't, that's just the way it was. That was the context.

I reffed a game last year where a player was called a "ginger ****". Straight red. I may even do the same for "mong" today because the word has evolved. But that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have even have raised a complaint from the player it was directed at where I'm from all those years ago.

Also, when it comes to dissent it's often the case that refs are great at saying what they would do but in reality I think most if not tolerate more than what they say on a forum. PL refs tolerate it never mind local park refs. I've heard refs been called all sorts whilst watching amateur footy or being an AR, things I'd get the cherry our for but on the day that ref decided to ignore it or not deal with it severely. That's the nature of human beings.
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Too right, can't drop the g%$g$r bomb........
 
JH said:
As I said, good luck sending a black player off for saying it to his black friend.
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if another player who was white said that we would be expected to send him off, if they don't want sent off don't use racial slurs on the field of play
 
Superhuman568 said:
if another player who was white said that we would be expected to send him off, if they don't want sent off don't use racial slurs on the field of play
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It's not a racial slur between two black players though. Have you ever been involved in a match reffing or against a black team, or against any Carribbean sports clubs (there are several around here). If you sent off people for using the N word between each other the game would be abandoned after 5 minutes! Context.....
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Yes it was from someone who had already left school 30 years ago...
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No...it really wasn’t.

Well I suppose it might have been in some posh schools......but then they considered it perfectly normal to have younger pupils act as slaves to the senior boys, so not really interested in a lesson in morality from them.....
 
Ben448844 said:
It's not a racial slur between two black players though. Have you ever been involved in a match reffing or against a black team, or against any Carribbean sports clubs (there are several around here). If you sent off people for using the N word between each other the game would be abandoned after 5 minutes! Context.....
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Correct it's only racist when those said black people choose it's racist, for example when someone white says it, if it's good enough to be racist when an opposition player says it then it's racist when they say it.

And if that means the match is abandoned then who's to blame?, the referee for enforcing the rules or the players for using racial slurs?, because either way they are racial slurs.
even with context
 
Padfoot said:
No...it really wasn’t.

Well I suppose it might have been in some posh schools......but then they considered it perfectly normal to have younger pupils act as slaves to the senior boys, so not really interested in a lesson in morality from them.....
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I'm with Brian, I left one of the roughest schools in Sheffield 29 years ago and it was certainly very offensive even back then.
 
Big Cat said:
Wog is about as bad as it gets, as bad as the N word imo
Agreeing with @one , the use of the N word between black comrades is quite normal, even respectful

Problem with all of this insulting business, is I have a very high threshold before I consider myself 'insulted'
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I'll bite.

I have an absolutely bile mind and grew up with a very dirty mouth. I lived in pubs. Everyone and anyone was a target. My old man was remarkable for having friends and punters of all persuasions and gleefully insulting them all, horribly, with extreme prejudice! And I was generally horrible to be about because all I did was insult.

That's not the football field though. The pub is not the football field. Some family's dinner table, a newspaper, website, the playground... they are not the football field.

When we wear the badge and strap on the whistle we have a very clear responsibility to set the highest standards when it comes to defending minorities (or the challenged) e.g. from insults and abusive language, whether they are present or not.

Yes, context. And it's impossible not to take into account your own personal experiences in making decisions*. But, thin ice with some of this!


(*Wog: I was with an old friend last night who once got cautioned for trying to forcibly remove a pair of giant metal Golliwogs from a shop window display. To him, it was a clear symbol of institutional/endemic racism. This was in 96, five years before they were taken off the jam jars. I had a collection of the little figures as a kid. But in my twenties I understood how massively offensive they were. Ignorance is not an excuse. I'd go absolutely mental if I heard wog or coon on a football field.

Bonus: I was quite inspired to see the rainbow laces campaign in the UK. I've got some in the post. A bit late but was not on the radar. And fairy is a red card people. It's indefensible.

Double bonus: If you are interested in swearing, I highly recommend the book Filthy English about the rich history of swearing in English language dialects. It's hilarious and informative.)
 
santa sangria said:
When we wear the badge and strap on the whistle we have a very clear responsibility to set the highest standards when it comes to defending minorities (or the challenged) e.g. from insults and abusive language, whether they are present or not.
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If they are not present, who or what are you defending them from?
 
Padfoot said:
If they are not present, who or what are you defending them from?
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So you go through all of your spectators/players profiles to check for skin colour (the only obvious one), religion, sexual orientation, education. No you dont. If you hear something that is racist, homophobic, perjorative in anyway you should deal with it. That way you might just protect a minkrity group from hearing the abuse/prejudice when they are present.
 
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