'Technical' and 'Dangerous' reds

[McTavish]

Like has been mentioned, whilst you feel it has no affect on you it certainly has a massive affect on the next guy to follow you into the middle.

Bstard has accepted this but doesn't care:

I will happily stand up and be 'Last Week's Ref'.

He knows he may cause other ref's problems and even seems to suggest that these problems are their fault because they are not as good as him (or perhaps are not using his form of "match control" and are instead trying to apply the LOTG)

I may cause an issue for the next referee if they cannot control the match. I accept that.

 

[RefSheff]

I'm going to disagree with everyone on this thread!

B'Stard is wrong to not show the RC when he thinks a DOGSO has occurred. If your opinion as the referee is that a YC or RC offence has occurred then you have to show the necessary card and submit the report. Score and time or friendly nature of a player don't come into this.

However, the key thing is what constitutes my opinion as the referee. DOGSO in particular is a delightfully grey area and can be incredibly subjective: did the player have control? would the covering defender have got there in time? was the ball heading towards goal? My opinion on these questions may well change from one match to another. Can I justify sending the guy off? Can I justify not sending the guy off? What are the two teams expecting me to do? What impact will either decision have on my match control? What is the best decision for this match that is consistent with law?

Law is the same at all levels of the game, but application of law varies from kids football, to sunday morning, to saturday 3pm, to semi-pro to professional levels. It's utterly naive to think otherwise.

 

[jofusref]

its quite simple, if in the opinion of the referee it is dogso card comes out freekick/penalty awarded if in the opinion of the referee it isnt dogso play on nothing to get excited about

 

[jack.prescott]

But the thing is refsheff, is that bstard said in the OP that the play was expecting to be sent off. He's made it clear that he thought it was a DOGSO and the player expected to see red. There is, therefore, absolutely no justification for not sending the player off.

Seems to me that because he's reached level 4, Bstard has an appalling attitudes towards grass roots football

 

[The Bstard]

I'm going to disagree with everyone on this thread!

B'Stard is wrong to not show the RC when he thinks a DOGSO has occurred. If your opinion as the referee is that a YC or RC offence has occurred then you have to show the necessary card and submit the report. Score and time or friendly nature of a player don't come into this.

However, the key thing is what constitutes my opinion as the referee. DOGSO in particular is a delightfully grey area and can be incredibly subjective: did the player have control? would the covering defender have got there in time? was the ball heading towards goal? My opinion on these questions may well change from one match to another. Can I justify sending the guy off? Can I justify not sending the guy off? What are the two teams expecting me to do? What impact will either decision have on my match control? What is the best decision for this match that is consistent with law?

Law is the same at all levels of the game, but application of law varies from kids football, to sunday morning, to saturday 3pm, to semi-pro to professional levels. It's utterly naive to think otherwise.

This is the best response I've seen, and probably the closest to what I was trying to espouse - except with the addition that I was, judging by reaction, almost certainly wrong in what I ended up doing.

 

[RefSheff]

But the thing is refsheff, is that bstard said in the OP that the play was expecting to be sent off. He's made it clear that he thought it was a DOGSO and the player expected to see red. There is, therefore, absolutely no justification for not sending the player off.

Seems to me that because he's reached level 4, Bstard has an appalling attitudes towards grass roots football

I don't think he has a appalling attitude to grass roots football. I DO think that he's ****** up in this instance (and I think he knows it!).

I'm not a l4 (yet!) but i've been fortunate enough to officiate in fames at that level. I've also done games at a senior county level, junior saturday games, senior sunday games, kids games, vets games and sunday div 7 clogger games. There's two things i feel strongly: 1) at each of these levels the players have different expectations about how law is applied 2) evrey one of these games is being played for the benefit of the players and the fans. I'm turning up so that 22 blokes can play togger, they ain't turning up just so I can referee!

Applying law and being sympathetic to the game bring played are not incompatible. Finding the right balance isn't always easy though...

 

[DazzRef]

But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference, all I'll do is make myself and referees in general look like unfeeling arseholes by sending the poor bloke off. I don't need to. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the way they look at referees except positively. No-one, not one of the 22 on the field plus benches, would agree with a red card at that point. So why do it? Because of Law? **** Law at that point. I'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round

Im sorry this is complete and utter nonsense. I had a game about 3 months ago now. U17s. Player was clean through on goal from a big lob by a defender, there are about 20-30 seconds left with the team who are through on goal 2-0 up. Last defender pulls back the striker on the edge of the box. Had no hesitation at blowing for a free kick and dismissing the player for DOGSO. No one argued or moaned. Parents, spectators, both coaches all accepted it. Even the young lad himself went 'im off ref' before I showed the card. So everyone did agree that it was a red card......I believe it would have created more comments not sending him off.

Your last sentance 'i'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round' utter nonsense. You as the referee are NOT on that pitch to make people happy. You are there to enforce the laws of the game, which as you have stated you do not. If you feel something is a red card.....partic DOGSO(None of this technical bull that you go on about) then you show the red card regardless of score, time, and however many players, coaches and parents don't want a red card.

A good referee is not refereeing to make friends. Yes in an ideal world we want to be liked.....but don't be liked for being a pushover and not showing cards that should be shown. Be liked for enforcing the laws properly and getting the big decisions correct. At the end of the day the losing team probably won't like you anyway. Your actions are not doing your colleagues any favours. As others have said if you wouldn't do these things when being assessed you should not be doing them EVER.

The fact I have had to comment on this at 03:20 in the morning after a long shift at work(work in a pub) shows what complete rubbish these comments of yours are.

 

[mikedn]

Im sorry this is complete and utter nonsense. I had a game about 3 months ago now. U17s. Player was clean through on goal from a big lob by a defender, there are about 20-30 seconds left with the team who are through on goal 2-0 up. Last defender pulls back the striker on the edge of the box. Had no hesitation at blowing for a free kick and dismissing the player for DOGSO. No one argued or moaned. Parents, spectators, both coaches all accepted it. Even the young lad himself went 'im off ref' before I showed the card. So everyone did agree that it was a red card......I believe it would have created more comments not sending him off.

Your last sentance 'i'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round' utter nonsense. You as the referee are NOT on that pitch to make people happy. You are there to enforce the laws of the game, which as you have stated you do not. If you feel something is a red card.....partic DOGSO(None of this technical bull that you go on about) then you show the red card regardless of score, time, and however many players, coaches and parents don't want a red card.

A good referee is not refereeing to make friends. Yes in an ideal world we want to be liked.....but don't be liked for being a pushover and not showing cards that should be shown. Be liked for enforcing the laws properly and getting the big decisions correct. At the end of the day the losing team probably won't like you anyway. Your actions are not doing your colleagues any favours. As others have said if you wouldn't do these things when being assessed you should not be doing them EVER.

The fact I have had to comment on this at 03:20 in the morning after a long shift at work(work in a pub) shows what complete rubbish these comments of yours are.

Totally agree 1,0000000000000 %

 

[SM]

In this kind of situation, 100% is everything. There is no more. It is all there is.

Jeremy Kyle generation eh?

That said, I also agree

 

[jack.prescott]

I think @DazzRef has got this absolutely spot on! I'm not refereeing to make any friends at all. Obviously getting the players "on your side" is helpful, but I'd do this by talking to players as much as I can, not failing to apply the LOTG.

If you give me a choice between pleasing every single player by bottling a big decision and getting handshakes from 22 players + subs + coaches OR having the balls to make a big decision, getting it right but annoying one team. I'll choose the second option any day of the week. LOTG are there for a reason, apply them properly!!!

 

[mikedn]

I have found that just communicating with the players(not necessary all of them at one time)during the match is appreciated by all,not just hands signals on their own(corners,goal kicks,throw ins)But to defer a decision because you're afraid to upset the players is absurd.Methinks a refresher course is the order of the day MrBstard.

In this kind of situation, 100% is everything. There is no more. It is all there is.

Jeremy Kyle generation eh?

That said, I also agree

You watch too much t.v. young man