A&H

'Technical' and 'Dangerous' reds

The Bstard said:
Ill-disciplined is one word for a few matches I've had! And I'm sure many others have too. What I relish is debate. I don't mind people disagreeing with me - in fact I like it, when they explain their reasoning: it helps me improve, and hopefully helps others lok in more depth at their refereeing style.

There is a difference, though, between selective application of technical laws and flagrantly ignoring laws, which a lot of people seem to be missing.

I'm reading Mark Halsey's autobiography at the moment, and he says broadly similar things about the way he naturally refereed at lower level.
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having read mr halseys book he is certainly no role model for any up and coming referee. his attitute to refereeing is even worse than mr pool. and that is saying something oh boy
 
The Referee Store
The Bstard said:
I do happily admit that. Why? Selfishness: I want to do well, and that requires good assessments, which I do not agree with at park level. But meh.

Offside does not have the same effect on a player that sending him off for an 'excusable' DOGSO does, so you're not comparing correctly. Personal attacks are quite unnecessary. You can disagree, fine, but there's no need for attacking.
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I am having trouble with the term "excusable DOGSO" there
 
As I've said, I'm of the opinion that if I can make an excuse why something that is DOGSO by law can be punished by not a red card, without compromising my match control (if it's not 100% obvious to all, or if it's 15-0) I will do it. 'Excusable' as in 'an excuse'
 
I am fully aware of the definition of the word excusable, just struggling to understand how a law that is universally known by players can be bypassed
 
You bypass it, because you can, and because, in your opinion, what is written in a book is not as important as what you see in front of your eyes.
 
The Bstard said:
You bypass it, because you can, and because, in your opinion, what is written in a book is not as important as what you see in front of your eyes.
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That's just it. As a referee you CANT bypass something that is a mandatory dismissal.

What you see in front of your eyes is what goes into your head and matches up to the relevant law. IE, I've seen a DOGSO, that is a mandatory dismissal. "Player over here please, you've denied the striker an obvious scoring opportunity with that foul hence I am dismissing you from the field of play"

If a team is 15-0 down and a defender STILL makes a foul like this then he's very silly. Unless of course he saw you getting out your car pre match and thought "lovely jubbly this pushover again"
 
But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference, all I'll do is make myself and referees in general look like unfeeling arseholes by sending the poor bloke off. I don't need to. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the way they look at referees except positively. No-one, not one of the 22 on the field plus benches, would agree with a red card at that point. So why do it? Because of Law? **** Law at that point. I'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round
 
I've been told by an assessor the only time you can save a player from a dogso is if say you play advantage and another player scores from it
 
The Bstard said:
But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference, all I'll do is make myself and referees in general look like unfeeling arseholes by sending the poor bloke off. I don't need to. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the way they look at referees except positively. No-one, not one of the 22 on the field plus benches, would agree with a red card at that point. So why do it? Because of Law? **** Law at that point. I'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round
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No no no. You DO HAVE TO send them off. What about the following game? They have their keeper playing when they shouldnt. You've disadvantaged another team.

And the time and score is irrelevant! I'm really trying to be empathetic but its becoming impossible.

Its just excuses excuses excuses. You do send the keeper off. Regardless. He's committed an offense that is a mandatory dismissal.

Scenario:

You let the keeper off. 2 weeks later they have a cup final. It goes to penalties. That keeper saves 3 of them and they win the cup. 11 opposition players are gutted. Who's fault is it? YOURS.
 
The Bstard said:
But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference
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Not in the current game, perhaps, but what about the games that the keeper would have been suspended for if he had been dismissed?

(Typed at the same time as HF)
 
On the football forum I frequent, blackpool's 'a view from the tower'...currently the view we have before we jump off it, 7 goals in one half is hard to stomach...this kind of thread is affectionately termed a run chase
 
Okay. Your opinion is your opinion. Courage of your convictions on coming on here more or less anonymously and posting it. Do you run this opinion by your assessors though?

May not be relevant to the level of football you are assessed at, just wonder if you are quite so keen to highlight your lack of respect for the game when you would be judged on it in a meaningful way.

Bet you don't have the balls my friend.
 
The Bstard said:
As I've said, I'm of the opinion that if I can make an excuse why something that is DOGSO by law can be punished by not a red card, without compromising my match control (if it's not 100% obvious to all, or if it's 15-0) I will do it. 'Excusable' as in 'an excuse'
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Seems to me like you're just trying too hard to be a 'lad' and pander to the players to get the best club marks. Trouble is, you are a referee - not a player, coach or anything else. As a referee, you follow the rules with regards to 'mandatory' red card offences in particular. Not my place to start umpiring tennis or whatever and start pretending that stray shots went in because the lad deserves it due to losing heavily. It doesn't work like that, and I don't feel it's necessarily your place to hinder other referees' abilities to manage games well simply because you don't like the laws of the game that the players are expected to follow.
 
SM said:
Okay. Your opinion is your opinion. Courage of your convictions on coming on here more or less anonymously and posting it. Do you run this opinion by your assessors though?

May not be relevant to the level of football you are assessed at, just wonder if you are quite so keen to highlight your lack of respect for the game when you would be judged on it in a meaningful way.

Bet you don't have the balls my friend.
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he has already stated he does the job properly if an assessor is at the game
 
The Bstard said:
But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference, all I'll do is make myself and referees in general look like unfeeling arseholes by sending the poor bloke off. I don't need to. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the way they look at referees except positively. No-one, not one of the 22 on the field plus benches, would agree with a red card at that point. So why do it? Because of Law? **** Law at that point. I'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round
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Deary, deary me. George Bernard Shaw springs to mind...
 
Which one did you have in mind, Brian

'The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place' would seem to fit the bill.....or should I be preparing to wrestle with a pig
 
The Bstard said:
But that's ********. Why should a book ruin people's enjoyment?

An example from a Sunday last season - Blue is 3-1 up. There are 20 seconds on the clock, and Red's striker is taken out by the 'keeper. It's DOGSO. Of course it is. But I'm going to blow the whistle after the penalty, it won't make a difference, all I'll do is make myself and referees in general look like unfeeling arseholes by sending the poor bloke off. I don't need to. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the way they look at referees except positively. No-one, not one of the 22 on the field plus benches, would agree with a red card at that point. So why do it? Because of Law? **** Law at that point. I'd rather 22 happy players and handshakes all round
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A book doesn't ruin anybody's enjoyment, it's the foolish actions of players who decide to commit DOGSO to even up the skill gap that do.

That's not your problem. You are not a participant, you are an observer with the authority and sole purpose to apply the laws of the game as written by FIFA.

Even if you disagree with them.

There are sections of LOTG I think are a bit OTT but my duty is to apply the laws as intended, not flex them for my own advantage or 'enjoyment'.

I don't buy the 'match control' rubbish I'm afraid. Not only was the offender already accepting of his fate so no decision to sell, everybody else was expecting red too.

Even so there are ways and means even if it is 35-0 as Herts suggests.

I personally favour a sympathetic tone as you go through the motions and explain to the player that he left you with no choice.

In truth that's an easier decision than one that could still alter the outcome of the game.

To quote an earlier post 'he's done you like a kipper'.
 
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When I commented on this at my promotion seminar today, to a wide range of refs varying from the audience of levels 5-9 and the instructors, one a select group AR and the other a level 2B who refs in the blue square premier league or what ever it is called now, not one person thought bending the laws to make teams happy was an acceptable practise.

Like has been mentioned, whilst you feel it has no affect on you it certainly has a massive affect on the next guy to follow you into the middle.
 
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