'Technical' and 'Dangerous' reds

[Yacinho]

I still fail to see how not giving a DOGSO does anything positive to your match control.

It's an illusion, you know how the "good parent" is the one who let the kid eat junkfood all weekend and sleep at 2am ? He got a GREAT kid control, because the kid is happy and therefore, calm
And the "bad parent" is the one who have to deal with that kid after this weekend and has no control because obviously the kid is going to cry if he makes him eat vegetables

 

[matty639]

What did I just read.

Whilst match control can mean you are harsher or more lenient depending on the temperature of the game so to speak, to flagrantly ignore the laws which we are supposed to enforce just so essentially you have an easier game is outrageous.

I'm at my promotion seminar on Thursday where one of the main instructors is a select group AR, I'll run that one past him to see if all "higher refs" hold the same skewed ideas about parks level football.

 

[matty639]

Oh and to say that those games mean nothing to the players is an insult to the thousands of honest guys and girls that were never blessed with enough skill to go higher but get out every weekend to play the game they love, not to mention to all our hard working referees who go out to these games.

 

[mikedn]

What did I just read.

Whilst match control can mean you are harsher or more lenient depending on the temperature of the game so to speak, to flagrantly ignore the laws which we are supposed to enforce just so essentially you have an easier game is outrageous.

I'm at my promotion seminar on Thursday where one of the main instructors is a select group AR, I'll run that one past him to see if all "higher refs" hold the same skewed ideas about parks level football.

Absolutley agree,regardless of the temperament of the game the laws should be implemented.......regardless

 

[Padfoot]

Taken from my latest blog post, here.

In a recent match between Green and Blue, I’ve had a lovely conversation before the game with Blue’s old-boy defender. We’ve had a laugh, and on the pitch he’s pretty much the same – ‘Get off the ref’s back, you’re not helping. He ain’t changing his mind, is he.’ He’s not the best player – age has given him a bit of footballing awareness, but it’s taken away pace and he’s basically a lump of a centre back.

It’s 1-1 after 60 minutes, but Green are clearly dominant – and look dead certs to win.

A ball goes through for their rapid centre forward. He easily beats old-boy for basic, and old-boy desperately lunges and just – just – clips the heels of the striker. The striker takes another three steps before falling theatrically, the ball going straight to the keeper. Old-boy is incensed at the striker, telling him how unsportsmanlike he is, yelling at him. I have to agree. The striker tells me to send him off, which irritates me more. I call old-boy over and he looks at me. ‘Yeah, I know I’m off, he says.’ ‘No,’ I say, ‘I’m only booking you.’ – I’ve got an excuse, and I can tell off the striker in the same exchange: ‘the striker slowed to make sure of the contact, and to go down. He lost control of the ball in doing so, so there was no clear goalscoring opportunity. The keeper was always getting their first.’ Mostly bullshit, really. But good man management – I keep Blue on my side, instead of a soft-ish red. I keep Green – mostly – on my side by explaining myself. It helps that I know they have no real firebrands to give me grief. I tell off the Green striker for making a meal, publically, because I have no other way of rebuking his unsportsmanlike conduct.

Later in the game, I have no excuses I can make when the other centre-back takes out the same striker when he’s two yard from going around the keeper. You can only pull that trick once, unless it’s 4-1.

The argument here is, yes, law and all that, but a referee on the park doesn't always follow law. I don't want to send players off for 'technical' infringements (DOGSO and 2nd Yellow) at that level, whereas I always will for 'dangerous' infringements (Spitting, Violent Conduct, Serious Foul Play).

For more, see my blog post, here.

So you basically failed to do your job properly and dressed it up with all sorts of pathetic excuses.......

Haven't read any other post on this thread....no real point....will just be those who do the job properly and those who are more interested in being popular....

Do the job properly or don't bother turning up.....it's not rocket science.

 

[mikedn]

So you basically failed to do your job properly and dressed it up with all sorts of pathetic excuses.......

Haven't read any other post on this thread....no real point....will just be those who do the job properly and those who are more interested in being popular....

Do the job properly or don't bother turning up.....it's not rocket science.

I am flabbergasted,sounds like you don't want to upset the players so you have a quiet game....

 

[McTavish]

Haven't read any other post on this thread....no real point....will just be those who do the job properly and those who are more interested in being popular....

Think you'd be surprised, Padfoot. Fairly unanimous on this one!

 

[jofusref]

I, respectfully, disagree. One of the major problems new level 7s that I watch - particularly on the younger end - is over-zealous application of Law. Hell, I was one of them once.

Now, I'm a higher level, and when I come back for park football my application of law is slightly different - it is more respectful of the ebb and flow of the game, of player's moods and my knowledge of them, and of the 'challenge' of the match. To my mind, DOGSO at 7-0 from HertsFinest is just asking for trouble. At that point, in Park Football, you're a stereotypical referee acting without common sense. If money is on the line, fine. If you're being assessed, fine. Otherwise, what was the point, except to prove who's boss?

so you are saying you only do the job properly if you are being assessed. thats just worrying

 

[haywain]

surely the best wind up since ...since MIP

always find it mildly amusing, if not a little sad, when people on forums get so irate about people who may or may not be the invention of a mischievous mind

 

[Brian Hamilton]

surely the best wind up since ...since MIP

always find it mildly amusing, if not a little sad, when people on forums get so irate about people who may or may not be the invention of a mischievous mind

Which is why I didn't bother wasting words. If it's another troll, it's sitting laughing in its cave. If it's not, then I refer you to my earlier post.

 

[jofusref]

surely the best wind up since ...since MIP

always find it mildly amusing, if not a little sad, when people on forums get so irate about people who may or may not be the invention of a mischievous mind

maybe some people need to find better ways to pass the time if that is the case

 

[HertsFinest]

Certainly not a troll. We all know there are lots of last weeks refs around so why wouldn't they be on here too?

 

[drahc]

Not technically true. In law its from the moment you enter the FOP to the moment you leave the FOP

Incorrect. It is the moment you arrive at the ground, to the moment you leave the ground. For example, a player can be sent off before play has started...

 

[ref craig]

And can also sent off after the game

 

[drahc]

Although... HertsFinest is correct that LOTG

"The referee has the authority to take disciplinary sanctions from the moment he enters the field of play until he leaves the field of play after the final whistle"

I'm incredibly tired - can someone tie up the loose ends over when you can send someone off (if it's before the game - can a substitute replace etc...) as I'm off to bed!

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Although... HertsFinest is correct that LOTG

"The referee has the authority to take disciplinary sanctions from the moment he enters the field of play until he leaves the field of play after the final whistle"

I'm incredibly tired - can someone tie up the loose ends over when you can send someone off (if it's before the game - can a substitute replace etc...) as I'm off to bed!

If you send a player off before the game he can be replaced by a substitute. If you send a substitute off before a game, he cannot be replaced.

Referee can take disciplinary sanctions from the moment he arrives at the ground. It's just that before he enters the field and after he leaves it, he would not show the red card.

 

[mikedn]

And you are welcome to that opinion, and I am going to disagree. In my opinion, I am there to facilitate a match within my control, and to the enjoyment of myself and players.

I may, by law, be wrong, and I may cause an issue for the next referee if they cannot control the match. I accept that, and perhaps shouldn't do it. But I do not accept that my integrity is lacking.

What county do you referee in?

 

[Cheshire Ref]

It makes sense if you put in context of laws of game

Nope definitely doesn't!!

 

[The Bstard]

First point:
No, I'm not trolling. I'm being honest about a decision I made, in one specific situation, where I did not follow LOTG. I'm trying to foster healthy debate through an honest appreciation of how I, personally, change my refereeing style dependant on the level of football and other things that, consciously or unconsciously, affect my game. That's clearly not working, judging by some responses.
We all know what you should do: in most cases LOAF is clear cut. But what's the point of a forum where we all agree? Let me make it clear again: I know I should not have made that decision. I know I was influenced by the player. I know I made an excuse not to send some one off. If I can not send someone off for a 'technical' offence - one where my match control will not be eroded by not sending them off - I won't.

The reason is because I don't want to send someone off. They are paying to play. They have a right to enjoy their Saturday as much as I have. we've all had those games where you think '**** this refereeing lark, I'm out.' I don't want a player to think '**** this playing lark, I'm out' because some over-zealous referee has sent them off at 15-0 over a nothing foul in the 85th minute. There is no difference in passion at SL and supply levels. But there is a difference in the end result. Two mid table teams in a park football league? The result means far less than two mid table supply league teams, where a place can equal £200 prize money, where the expectations are different, where the abilities are different. It is only at park level football, where I can 'get away' with fudging a decision to make players happy (and yes, again, I freely admit to wanting to make players happy above the sanctified laws) that I will do it. The laws are less sacrosanct here. The game is more free. My opinion, which will remain, is that the 'spirit' of the game is more important the sanctification of law, particularly at a lower level. If you want to disagree, please do. But it is an opinion - so please give me some reasoning behind yours in return, not a catch-all dismissal.

Second point:
You only have jurisdiction from entering to leaving FOP. FOP arguably includes dressing rooms and tunnel of a 'proper' ground. I've sent players off after the game for things they've done or said, but if they say something to me in the car park I can only report them for misconduct. If you send someone off before a game, the team may replace them with a named substitute,but may not replace that named substitute on the bench.

 

[HertsFinest]

Well written. I completely understand your point of view even if I don't agree to all of it.