Unwanted advantage
- Thread starter MatthewC
- Start date
PP62
Well-Known Member
But as AR it's not our job to play advantage. If we see an offence and flag for it the referee then has the option.
I play a lot of advantage in the games I referee. This may be a consequence of having previously refereed at a higher level, but I'm finding that even back at Sunday morning Hackney Marshes level the players are appreciative of it more often than not. I'll always go back to the player who was fouled and tell him he would have had the free kick, and likewise have a quiet word with the offender so that he knows I've seen it (that is assuming I haven't lost one of both of them during the advantage ..!). I certainly can't recall any occasions where I can pinpoint lack of match control as being caused by playing or indeed not playing an advantage. That said I do cheat and not signal until the advantage has actually come off, not as if I am going to be assessed and picked up on it.
It doesn't take long to do a quick assessment of whether advantage is likely to be beneficial or not. Position on pitch, direction of play, position of opponents, has the player with the ball got any team mates near by to support him, and so on. To say you can't and shouldn't play advantages in grass roots games is wrong, just as is saying that you should only have one per game. Each game needs to be taken on it's own merits.
It doesn't take long to do a quick assessment of whether advantage is likely to be beneficial or not. Position on pitch, direction of play, position of opponents, has the player with the ball got any team mates near by to support him, and so on. To say you can't and shouldn't play advantages in grass roots games is wrong, just as is saying that you should only have one per game. Each game needs to be taken on it's own merits.
And someone had taken a photo?
Kes
I'll Decide ...
You could have done a Mike Dean a la Spurs advantage boogie on the way back to the centre circle - just in case there was any doubt....
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
The "i want to play lots of advantage and no one can tell me any better" idiots are those who are simply out there for self aggrandizement and club marks......
Of course players will appear to appreciate lots of advantage.....that's because they are largely clueless about their own ability and exceptionally clueless about the LOTG.......and apparently so are a great many referees......
Just another reason why the proposed changes to referee structure will simply result in a lowering of standards yet further, allow for the continued over promotion of the feckless and the witless, and is in reality just another mechanism for the FA to prioritise youth over experience and knowledge.
Of course players will appear to appreciate lots of advantage.....that's because they are largely clueless about their own ability and exceptionally clueless about the LOTG.......and apparently so are a great many referees......
Just another reason why the proposed changes to referee structure will simply result in a lowering of standards yet further, allow for the continued over promotion of the feckless and the witless, and is in reality just another mechanism for the FA to prioritise youth over experience and knowledge.
I disagree. As an AR you have every right (and the responsibility) to not flag the foul if you see an obvious advantage. If you flag it and the referee plays advantage you will be quite a ways behind your prescribed location!
This is where flagging on the move comes into play. If you flag for a foul whilst still crabbing along the line, you give the referee the option to play an advantage. If he chooses to go for the foul, you can simply stop and indicate the direction.
I did qualify that this was the case only 'in a perfect scenario', hence most of the time it is wasted because of the high turnover of possession. That's precisely my problem with it in practice. I can see this has produced an interesting debate among the referees here. As a final word, I relate to points from both sides, but I believe that the strict way this part of law is currently applied and taught may actually be damaging some referees' confidence. Not only are we asked to signal 'immediately', as previously pointed out, but the straightforward 3 second gauge has been replaced with a rather complex decision as to when and if the advantage has accrued.
I just can't say I've ever considered it that tricky to judge, perhaps because I do almost apply a rugby-like logic to it.
At the very least, I'll wait and see who gets the ball under control after a foul - and if that's someone on the fouled player's side and they control it comfortably, I'll usually let them take a few touches or attempt a pass before deciding if the advantage has come off or not. I've actually had to train myself to play less advantage in defensive positions, but (on a good day!) I'm perfectly comfortable with it in attacking areas.
At the very least, I'll wait and see who gets the ball under control after a foul - and if that's someone on the fouled player's side and they control it comfortably, I'll usually let them take a few touches or attempt a pass before deciding if the advantage has come off or not. I've actually had to train myself to play less advantage in defensive positions, but (on a good day!) I'm perfectly comfortable with it in attacking areas.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
I am one of those "feckless and witless" as you put it, who takes pride in allowing more advantages rather than less. It's even one of the (two) things I mention to the captains at the coin toss. My desire to do so comes from a strongly held belief that, where it is possible, legitimately within the LOTG, for us to increase the enjoyment of players and spectators, then we should take that opportunity. As I've progressed from 7 to 5 over the last two years it's consistently been called out by assessors as a strength and I'm sure it's also helped me get more prestigious appointments. I'd see that as a Win / Win situation .. I'm happy, players and clubs are happy.
Whilst I fully understand and accept the risks of over use of this tool, you come across as blind to the frustration and disappointment caused by it's under use. And run the risk of perpetuating / exacerbating the 'them and us' culture so prevalent between referees and footballers
So call call me and others idiots, I'll respond by saying you are a clown. If you really are an assessor then I would be very, very sorry for the poor candidates that fall into your path ....
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Oh I am very much an assessor, and I am sure that some candidates have felt sorry for themselves after being assessed by me....whereas others have left feeling contented and happy.
The difference between the two? On one hand you have those who are competent at what they do and willing to take on board development points etc...and the other you have those who think (or thought) they were competent and preferred to try and justify poor performance or practice rather than listen and develop......I'll leave you to work out which was which.....
As referees progress up the greasy pole, the standard of football will improve and with it the usefulness of advantage increases, but for "parks" football it will be uncommon that an "advantage" will be truly that instead of just window dressing.
Someone refereeing at Supply league level will have more genuine opportunities to play proper advantage than someone doing Div 5 on a Sunday morning....but both sets of players will have similar expectations.....it's how you manage those expectations that is the hard part.
DanCohen17
Simply The Best
Here in Canada, we got a directive just before Christmas that says (essentially) the following:
Having said that, half the refs immediately signal advantage, and half the refs (overlap unknown) still say "play on". Heck, I did the latter yesterday afternoon by accident, and I should know better!
- Don't call for the advantage until an advantage has actually accrued. That avoids calling advantage and having to pull it back like was done here. It also has the added "benefit" of having everyone blow up at you because you were slow on the whistle on a foul.
- Don't use "play on, advantage" or "advantage, play on". Just use "advantage".
As others have stated, guidelines clearly state here in UK to immediately signal & call for the advantage. It's an enormous bugbear of mine and, certainly at L4, something I really had to concentrate on, especially under assessment.
Again, that's an FA guideline thing. "Red, Amber & Green" advantage zones, using defensive third, middle third & attacking third. Never in defensive, rarely in middle, more in attacking.
Massively agree with this. For a start, it looks sensational! As a referee, seeing your AR do this is brilliant and allows that opportunity of advantage. Plus, assessors love it too!!
For me, the biggest thing about advantages, is too many referees across all levels of the game are too afraid to "bring it back". Attempt the advantage (immediate signal, as instructed) and if it's not there, bring it back. Sell it, give it the "tried the advantage, but wasn't there fellas, sorry". As a general rule of thumb, I used a pretty simply strategy. If I was still shouting "playing advantage" (yes, not what I should have been shouting, I'm aware!) and arms were outstretched, I'd bring it back accordingly. If I'd clearly finished shouting, and arms were now only out for show-off, then it's advantage done. This is also something assessors (certainly Supply ones around me) adore! Huge part of my game, cheap marks always picked up!
To an extent, I agree with Padders. If players aren't capable of using that advantage, it's not an advantage!
Manage the situation, manage the expectation, manage the players, manage the game.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Are you sure, aren't we best to wait to see if advantage can be played, in accordance with referee's approach so far in the game.
You stop, flag, as per procedure and referee shouts advantage play on
a) It looks messy
b) AR is out of position as players are now ahead of him/her
DanCohen17
Simply The Best
Don't stop & flag, you flag whilst on the move. Not only does it not look messy, it looks brilliant!
As the AR, it's not your decision as to whether the advantage is to be played, you just need to tell the ref that an offence has been committed!
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
Do you know something @Padfoot you really are a joke, I question sometimes whether the controversy is deliberate. You bleat on in other posts about helping and devolping referee's and then produce the venoumous posts as quoted above. If young and or new referee's do come here for help and guidance then what guidance are they getting from a "so called" assessor calling them idiots, witless and feckless?
Do you get a buzz out of belittling people? Your opinion is your opinion but why word it the way you do? You come across as an intelligent man who has clearly swallowed a dictionary so choose your words a little wiser in future as your posts add nothing but negative's to any conversation.