A&H

Was I correct?

Sheffields Finest

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
Top of the table clash, top division, local amateur league, no linos, striker stood 1-2 yards behind the last central defender in the defenders half when a hooked clearance is launched towards these two, the nippy striker has no chance physically against this combative centre half. Striker never challenged for the ball or did anything in my opinion to influence the defenders action (apart from him knowing he was behind him). Defender goes to try and skilfully trap the ball at his feet and he completely fluffs his lines and inadvertently puts the ball into the path of the nippy striker. I give the subsequent on running goal and it caused mayhem with the home team.

It certainly wasn't a deflection pass, it was a misplaced unskillful play of the ball. Home team equalised 30 seconds later so a nice friendly 0-0 turned into a cauldron of fire at 1-1 and three bookings ensued.... thoughts?
 
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I think you made the right decision in law. If I'm honest, not sure that I would have allowed the goal though.

What it does highlight is one of my big bears with the LOTG - they are obviously (and probably rightly) written with the elite game in mind. "Parks" football, where many of us operate, is at times a totally different game.

The striker has benefitted from being in an offside position. This benefit has come about because of the incompetence of the central defender. Fair enough if an overpaid pro mis-controls the ball, tough, but some bloke on a Saturday afternoon? Essentially the centre back has been penalised for trying to bring the ball under control - I.e. play some decent football; he would not have been penalised if he had just left the ball and it went through to the offside attacker.
 
RefJef said:
The striker has benefitted from being in an offside position. This benefit has come about because of the incompetence of the central defender.
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We are there to enforce the Laws (as designed, written, and such), not to accommodate the poor skill of a player.
 
AlexF said:
We are there to enforce the Laws (as designed, written, and such), not to accommodate the poor skill of a player.
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And I haven't disagreed with that. But similarly, I don't have to ( and am not going to) just sit back and say, "oh well, that's the laws", shrug my shoulders and get on with it.

If I think that if there is a flaw in the laws I am entitled to highlight said flaw, which is what I have done here. My main point being that elite football and grass roots football are different, but that is not always reflected in the laws
 
I don't disagree with you on the fact that some of the laws of the game don't help the grass roots ref. However, failing to uphold the laws of the game as they now are does do a major disservice to the next referee who follows you. Perhaps this next ref doesn't like all the laws of the game either but despite that applies them anyway. His/her job is made harder because the "the previous" ref (careful choice of wording) didn't uphold laws he didn't like.
 
I DID NOT SAY I WOULDN'T APPLY THE LAWS AS THEY ARE PUBLISHED. In this case there is an element of you had to be there - what we don't know is how much the ball "deflected off the ... opponent", and I have been honest in my opinion.

What I have said is that I don't think the laws are very good in this (and perhaps other) situations.

I come on here to offer an opinion and get told: "We are there to enforce the Laws (as designed, written, and such), not to accommodate the poor skill of a player" in one post and that I am last week's ref in another.

Nuances, people, nuances.
 
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:D
 
Looks like I'm alone in thinking that I would give the offside.
When the ball is played, he's offside and has gained an advantage in being there from the defenders lack of control. I think this bit covers my view:
...gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent.

If the defender had controlled it and then passed it to keeper which the forward intercepted then fair enough, all is good, but a miscontrol sounds like deflected off an opponent to me.
 
I do see the sense in what you are saying; the laws as they are now massively favour the attacking team. I agree with that part. I just don't agree that referees should try and rebalance this on the pitch.

The problem is with "deliberately plays the ball".

Defenders need to catch up with the laws here and just not play the ball. Easier said than done maybe given the years they have played the game when the laws were different, but the laws have changed and they need to catch up and that is the only real way I can see that they can counter this sort of situation.
 
MikeV said:
Looks like I'm alone in thinking that I would give the offside.
When the ball is played, he's offside and has gained an advantage in being there from the defenders lack of control. I think this bit covers my view:
...gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent.

If the defender had controlled it and then passed it to keeper which the forward intercepted then fair enough, all is good, but a miscontrol sounds like deflected off an opponent to me.
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Also says that being offside isn't an offence until you become involved in active play! He clearly wasn't? It wasn't a deflection as it was a miscontrol.... I'm happy(ish) with my call but to have 11 players surround you takes a certain type of Balls of Steel...
 
MikeV said:
Looks like I'm alone in thinking that I would give the offside.
When the ball is played, he's offside and has gained an advantage in being there from the defenders lack of control. I think this bit covers my view:
...gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent.

If the defender had controlled it and then passed it to keeper which the forward intercepted then fair enough, all is good, but a miscontrol sounds like deflected off an opponent to me.
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You might have been right with the laws as they stood two years ago, but under the current laws I'm afraid that is 100% wrong. Once the defender deliberately plays the ball, even if he makes a complete horlicks of it, there cannot be an offside offence from the original pass.
 
Sheffield Steel !
Good call for me. He's deliberately played it , could have left it If the attacker hasn't made a move until the ball has been played by the defender then it's all good .
 
Mintyref said:
No, you're always wrong, you can see nowt from the centre circle............
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7.5km with a dodgy knee isn't too shabby, got an appointment with a surgeon next week so we'll see if my seasons done or can they rebuild him....we have the technology apparently! WD40 tablets are working well at the moment!!
 
I've managed three games so far this season....two calf tears and one back injury....next likely fixture end of November.......not running, marathon training programme shot to hell, need more than God help me tablets ...........
 
Had a similar incident in my U14s game today...

High ball over the top, tall home defender facing his own goal attempted to cut the ball out full stretch as it came over his shoulder, but only managed to toe it straight into the the path of the unmarked attacker.

Club assistant, who has run the line for me on many occasions, immediately put the flag up. Instinctively went with his flag and blew for the offside, much to the away team's displeasure. :confused: For me it was one of those decisions where regardless which way it went, one side wasn't going to be happy.

One thing is certain at grass roots level, any contact by a defender (deliberate or unintentionally deflected) is deemed to be "a back pass" by many! :mad::wall:
 
That's a tricky one - if the defender never really has the chance to get there properly then it's a deflection. Supposedly.

The reality is that these decisions are only going to be random and inconsistent, and make no sense to anybody.
 
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