Offside question

[blueslipper]

I
was refereeing an under 12s match – level C.

Attacking team pass forward to player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position.

Ball obviously deflected by defending player, so it looks like it is going to be a corner.

The attacking player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position does not move-

he is about 10 metres away from the ball when it crosses the goal line. No other player from either team anywhere near ball or offside player.

If the player was not there, you would expect the goalkeeper to stop the ball going for a corner- he could run over there and kick it out or up the sideline.

Goalkeeper though does not move even though the ball is travelling fairly slowly.

I give freekick for offside and try to give explanation as to why to the players.

As I said- if that player was not standing there, the Goalkeeper would have tried to prevent a corner.

Because the player was there, the Goalkeeper
seemed worried of conceding a goal, so he stayed still.

According to the Laws of the game though, I am not sure I can justify the decision.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I
was refereeing an under 12s match – level C.

Attacking team pass forward to player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position.

Ball obviously deflected by defending player, so it looks like it is going to be a corner.

The attacking player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position does not move-

he is about 10 metres away from the ball when it crosses the goal line. No other player from either team anywhere near ball or offside player.

If the player was not there, you would expect the goalkeeper to stop the ball going for a corner- he could run over there and kick it out or up the sideline.

Goalkeeper though does not move even though the ball is travelling fairly slowly.

I give freekick for offside and try to give explanation as to why to the players.

As I said- if that player was not standing there, the Goalkeeper would have tried to prevent a corner.

Because the player was there, the Goalkeeper
seemed worried of conceding a goal, so he stayed still.

According to the Laws of the game though, I am not sure I can justify the decision.

If the player in an offside position does not become active by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent's play, there would be no offence.
From your description the attacker was at the junction of the goal line and the penalty area line, and the ball went out of play close to the goal area.
You don't know whether the goalkeeper would have tried to play it if the attacker wasn't there; as an11-year-old, the goalkeeper won't know the niceties of the offside law.
Based on the above summary, which hopefully is accurate, what would be your decision on reflection?

 

[Homer Ref]

I think in an under-12s match you are putting too much emphasis on the players knowing the LOTG that much. In the games I referee you feel as though you are constantly explaining your decisions to them every time so they have some idea of the reason it is or isn't offside. Did it impact the game is the big question you need to ask yourself.. I don't think it did, so in terms of thinking about it, you gave what you thought (and was your opinion) was the correct decision. In terms of educating the players about offside it gives them and their coaches something to think about in future games.

 

[blueslipper]

The point is that an older player-GK would know the rules better and rushed over to prevent a corner. The GK in this case did not realise the opposition player would not have been able to play at the ball

 

[blueslipper]

The point is that an older player-GK would know the rules better and rushed over to prevent a corner. The GK in this case did not realise the opposition player would not have been able to play at the ball

I thought it was unfair for that team to concede a corner in the situation

 

[one]

Did the attacker make any obvious action to clearly make the goalkeeper think he was going to play the ball? If yes then FK decision is correct. Otherwise a corner decision is based on a guess (that LOTG doesn't support) rather than facts.

It's better to make the simple obvious decision rather than overthinking/complicating it.

 

[blueslipper]

Did the attacker make any obvious action to clearly make the goalkeeper think he was going to play the ball? If yes then FK decision is correct. Otherwise a corner decision is based on a guess (that LOTG doesn't support) rather than facts.

It's better to make the simple obvious decision rather than overthinking/complicating it.

The attacker didn’t move. An older player usually slowly jogs back looking sheepish with the palms up knowing they’re 20 yards offside. I did not see a simple obvious decision; that is why I am asking here

 

[socal lurker]

Law 11 begins with “ It is not an offence to be in an offside position.” We are far away from the era I. Which we punished OS just because an opponent had to make a choice. As I picture what was described, I don’t think this is even close to OS

 

[socal lurker]

The attacker didn’t move. An older player usually slowly jogs back looking sheepish with the palms up knowing they’re 20 yards offside. I did not see a simple obvious decision; that is why I am asking here

If the attacker didn’t move, he didn’t do any of the 4 things that count as interfering with an opponent. Not OS.

We are long past the time a player had to show he’s not involved. He’s not involved and not OS unless he DOES one of those 4 things.

Don’t bear yourself up, but learn for the next game.

 

[blueslipper]

I don’t think anyone here knows what it is like to Referee 12 year olds in their 3rd match ever with linos and the offside rule. I don’t think U was wrong. I think the law should be tweaked to clearly fit this situation. As I said thought it was unfair for that team to concede a corner in the situation

 

[blueslipper]

I don’t think anyone here knows what it is like to Referee 12 year olds in their 3rd match ever with linos and the offside rule. I don’t think U was wrong. I think the law should be tweaked to clearly fit this situation. As I said thought it was unfair for that team to concede a corner in the situation

Ifab does say this -
In situations where:

• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball, this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

 

[one]

Ifab does say this -
In situations where:

• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball, this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

Where did you get this from?

These are the two points from law that are relevant to your scenario you should be looking at. From your description, neither hold true

I did not see a simple obvious decision; that is why I am asking here

According to the Laws of the game though, I am not sure I can justify the decision.

No you can't. A simple decision is one you can justify the decision in law.

 

[blueslipper]

Where did

Where did you get this from?

These are the two points from law that are relevant to your scenario you should be looking at. From your description, neither hold true
View attachment 8446





No you can't. A simple decision is one you can justify the decision in law.

I get that from-official Laws of the game. Try reading it sometime.

Law 11 - Offside | IFAB

Offside in football, offside rule football, offside rule introduced

www.theifab.com

 

[Ganajin]

You are 100% correct.... a player standing in an offside position, who does not make any kind of action, CAN be penalised if just by standing there they prevent the GK reaching the ball. Note : just because the keeper is worried about them being there will not constitute an offence: they need to actually be in the way.

 

[RefRyanAus]

I think you are taking the IFAB advice out of context. You can’t use a general statement to overrule a more specific statement. There is always some ambiguity in rules but the quote you are referring to is really about blocking or similar type active behaviour.

In the circumstance you describe the ball seems to just run out of play and the offensive player does nothing other than stand in an offside position. Whilst I appreciate the challenges with refereeing some of these younger age groups you can’t invent an alternative approach that addresses a perceived inequity arising due to a lack of player knowledge.

However, it is an interesting question, so thank you for asking it. In the end it doesn’t seem any harm was done and I can confidently say there will be more significant dilemmas and at lease some worse days ahead in your refereeing journey.

 

[Russell Jones]

I don’t think anyone here knows what it is like to Referee 12 year olds in their 3rd match ever with linos and the offside rule. I don’t think U was wrong. I think the law should be tweaked to clearly fit this situation. As I said thought it was unfair for that team to concede a corner in the situation

The offside law is choicefully constructed to be not completely ‘fair’. It is instead designed to encourage attacking play. It absolutely favours the attacking team by deciding that a player in an offside position simply ‘being in the mind of a defending player’ is not an offence.

 

[JamesL]

Ifab does say this -
In situations where:

• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball, this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

Text from law 11. The last part.which covers order of law 11 and law 12 in offside situations.

Ifab does say this -
In situations where:

• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball, this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

I'm not sure this applies as from your description they aren't in the way of the opponent and the opponent doesn't move towards the ball.

I don’t think anyone here knows what it is like to Referee 12 year olds in their 3rd match ever with linos and the offside rule. I don’t think U was wrong. I think the law should be tweaked to clearly fit this situation. As I said thought it was unfair for that team to concede a corner in the situation

Not a great way to introduce yourself to the forum. There is so much experience here and yes we've all (most of us) referees u12 and many of our posters still do. Why start a thread if you don't think you were wrong and then disagree with everyone who says you were. Note that there isn't one other poster in favour of offside here. That should be a pretty good indicator that the decision you hace described is not conversant with the current laws of the game

 

[blueslipper]

Text from law 11. The last part.which covers order of law 11 and law 12 in offside situations.

I'm not sure this applies as from your description they aren't in the way of the opponent and the opponent doesn't move towards the ball.

Not a great way to introduce yourself to the forum. There is so much experience here and yes we've all (most of us) referees u12 and many of our posters still do. Why start a thread if you don't think you were wrong and then disagree with everyone who says you were. Note that there isn't one other poster in favour of offside here. That should be a pretty good indicator that the decision you hace described is not conversant with the current laws of the game

He was certainly in the way for at least a half second. Your comment about introducing myself to this forum - I don’t care for it. What am I doing wrong anyway? So I am not allowed to disagree with anyone here because they are all experts and never wrong apparently.

 

[blueslipper]

He was certainly in the way for at least a half second. Your comment about introducing myself to this forum - I don’t care for it. What am I doing wrong anyway? So I am not allowed to disagree with anyone here because they are all experts and never wrong apparently.

I seem to read two posters agreeing with me. Although I don’t understand the pist saying a general rule cannot overrule a specific rule. I thought a general rule in life overruled a specific one.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

He was certainly in the way for at least a half second. Your comment about introducing myself to this forum - I don’t care for it. What am I doing wrong anyway? So I am not allowed to disagree with anyone here because they are all experts and never wrong apparently.

Comments like "Try reading it some time" and your misplaced assumption that members of this group don't know about Under-12 matches will not encourage us to answer the original question.
To do so, however, as the attacker stood still some 10 metres from where the ball went out of play, the correct restart is a corner kick.
If the offside question is raised, the simple answer is "Not interfering"