A&H

In or Out?

Should the UK remain in, or leave, the European Union

  • Remain

  • Leave

  • Undecided

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It is perculiar if you look at the 'official' polls it's 50/50 yet I've met very very few people who are voting to stay.

I'd have a conservative guess of 80/20 in favour of leave. Obviously this poll has turned out a little different but then you do get a sense that the majority on here are somewhat left leaning and get offended if the wind blows the wrong direction :D
 
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I too, am a stay person.

interesting that people say the remain campaign isn't strong yet, the leave campaign have no idea how economy will be effected, have no idea who'll run the place, have no idea what import and export we have pre-arranged, have no idea if we'll need visas now for Europe, have no idea how we'll border control EU members if we DON'T have a visa system set up for each way - its main argument is 'IMMIGRATION!' as if we are going to vote out and a big coach is going to round up all immigrants and kick them out! :rolleyes:

to be honest, I think the numbers of non EU immigrants let into the country are like 70%? so we only actually have had to accept around 30% of immigrants - the 70% we could have turned down ... and we all think that's going to change if we leave the EU because .... ?

to put it bluntly ... if your reason to leave is for immigration and immigration alone, then I seriously suggest you re-think and re-read a few things - maybe BBC iPlayer the EU Debate and have a listen - for a scot Alex Salmond speaks a lot of sense
 
HertsFinest said:
It is perculiar if you look at the 'official' polls it's 50/50 yet I've met very very few people who are voting to stay.

I'd have a conservative guess of 80/20 in favour of leave. Obviously this poll has turned out a little different but then you do get a sense that the majority on here are somewhat left leaning and get offended if the wind blows the wrong direction :D
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Here comes the (social) science bit, concentrate... :D
 
Charlie Jones said:
I too, am a stay person.

interesting that people say the remain campaign isn't strong yet, the leave campaign have no idea how economy will be effected, have no idea who'll run the place, have no idea what import and export we have pre-arranged, have no idea if we'll need visas now for Europe, have no idea how we'll border control EU members if we DON'T have a visa system set up for each way - its main argument is 'IMMIGRATION!' as if we are going to vote out and a big coach is going to round up all immigrants and kick them out! :rolleyes:

to be honest, I think the numbers of non EU immigrants let into the country are like 70%? so we only actually have had to accept around 30% of immigrants - the 70% we could have turned down ... and we all think that's going to change if we leave the EU because .... ?

to put it bluntly ... if your reason to leave is for immigration and immigration alone, then I seriously suggest you re-think and re-read a few things - maybe BBC iPlayer the EU Debate and have a listen - for a scot Alex Salmond speaks a lot of sense
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The Remain campaign on the other hand, chooses to just simply tell massive lies and try to scare voters into remaining. ;)

The Leave campaign (for those of us with half a brain cell anyway) centres mainly around avoiding the surrender of power to an immovable force that doesn't have our interests at heart Charlie. Watch the movie "Brexit". very little or even none of the argument alludes to immigration.
Sure, the EU hasn't done the UK THAT much harm so far - it's what is to come that should worry people. All young people can see is the here and now. Like most youngsters, you'll think "hey, it's been okay so far, the world's not falling apart yet, why rock the boat?". That's exactly what the unelected trough-feeders at the EU are relying on. ;)
As for Alex Salmond - you're having a laugh intcha?!! A hard-nosed, pro Scottish Independence socialist!! A lot of sense? :rolleyes: :eek:

To put it bluntly, if your reason to vote Remain is because you think that only racists and old farts are in the Leave camp, then it's you that needs to have a re-think and search out a few facts before signing your freedom away mate. ;)
 
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Yeah, I'm remain - I don't think I can see a single real benefit to leaving in all honesty.

On the other hand, the process of getting out and how things will be organised in a non-EU UK seems to be entirely unplanned and not thought through. It's the same problem that I think eventually scuppered the Scottish devolution as well - the remain campaign only needs to campaign for remain, while for the leave campaign to be credible to me, they both need to put forward a persuasive argument and at least have a vague idea of the logistics of getting out.

Even if you disregard how good or not an argument you think they're making, they haven't remotely satisfied my concerns regarding how well leaving will actually work. And that's a huge problem for me.
 
Kes said:
The Remain campaign on the other hand, chooses to just simply tell massive lies and try to scare voters into remaining. ;)

The Leave campaign (for those of us with half a brain cell anyway) centres mainly around avoiding the surrender of power to an immovable force that doesn't have our interests at heart Charlie. Watch the movie "Brexit". very little or even none of the argument alludes to immigration.
Sure, the EU hasn't done the UK THAT much harm so far - it's what is to come that should worry people. All young people can see is the here and now. Like most youngsters, you'll think "hey, it's been okay so far, the world's not falling apart yet, why rock the boat?". That's exactly what the unelected trough-feeders at the EU are relying on. ;)
As for Alex Salmond - you're having a laugh intcha?!! A hard-nosed, pro Scottish Independence socialist!! A lot of sense? :rolleyes: :eek:

To put it bluntly, if your reason to vote Remain is because you think that only racists and old farts are in the Leave camp, then it's you that needs to have a re-think and search out a few facts before signing your freedom away mate. ;)
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Define "Our" interests? I for one don't think Cameron et. al. have ever had my interests at heart, so the more power they don't have, the better as far as I'm concerned!
 
this is the other interesting one for me ...

most voters of leave have no faith in Cameron, but will be stuck with him for another 4 years? 3 years? (I always get confused between us and America on term times) with him making all the decisions, and being our head honcho ...
 
Charlie Jones said:
this is the other interesting one for me ...

most voters of leave have no faith in Cameron, but will be stuck with him for another 4 years? 3 years? (I always get confused between us and America on term times) with him making all the decisions, and being our head honcho ...
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What's the alternative then? Alex Salmond? :D
 
Sovereignty.

A huge factor that's being ignored by both sides.

Richest countries in Europe? Switzerland and Norway. What's the common denominator? Not in the EU but both have free trade agreements with the EU.
 
We didn't vote to join did we? (there's a clue in there to what it's all about ;) )
So why should we vote to remain?
 
HertsFinest said:
Sovereignty.

A huge factor that's being ignored by both sides.

Richest countries in Europe? Switzerland and Norway. What's the common denominator? Not in the EU but both have free trade agreements with the EU.
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Again, what does that actually mean? The right to have our country run 100% by a group of Eton toffs as opposed to just 95% by them?
 
GraemeS said:
Again, what does that actually mean? The right to have our country run 100% by a group of Eton toffs as opposed to just 95% by them?
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Whom we democratically elect

Also the interests of Romania, Italy and the UK are clearly not the same so to have one body dictate common laws to all is clearly not workable

I assume you're not a fisherman builder plumber or farmer?
 
You can't negoitiate something before you leave, especially if you aren't the head of the government.

The only real benefit to being in the EU is the single market. I'd have to see real evidence that we wouldn't have access to it.
As were net importers I can't see that happening

Most non-EU immigrants are students, who pay a premium to go to our universities.
 
HertsFinest said:
Whom we democratically elect

Also the interests of Romania, Italy and the UK are clearly not the same so to have one body dictate common laws to all is clearly not workable

I assume you're not a fisherman builder plumber or farmer?
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No, does that mean I don't count?

In your mind, what laws have they dictated to us? The remain campaign quotes laws enforcing the existence of minimum wages, mandatory maternity leave, mandatory paid holiday and a lot of other anti-discrimination laws. I'm interested to know what you think the bad things are that are being imposed on us to counter that?
 
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