Advantage

[Ciley Myrus]

The "your rotten so I gave you the freekick" theory is ludicrous and goes against the spirt of the game, and indeed the LOTG.

Course I don't have exact figures, but, in your grass the roots, or under 12 game, do you see many Ronaldo free kicks hammered in from 40 yards? Very much doubt it. and, most free kicks scored at grass roots will be down to a poorer goalkeeper, not the accuracy of the free kick taker.

Players generally want, to, well, erm, play? Yes, to play the ultimate advantage feels great, both for them and you, but overall, the chance to allow the game to flow, give them a moving ball at their feet with yards of space to run into, as long as you are consistent in what you allow.

Refereeing is not about seeing a foul and penalising it. My gran can watch tv and know when someone has been fouled, and she was cremated in 1998. Seeing a foul and blowing the whistle is not refereeing. Its about awareness, personality, appreciation for your surroundings, temperament and yes, 1% of it is luck. You can stand in adopt text book position, be the fittest person on earth and be wearing shiny new kit, however, if an opponent runs across your line of sight at the last minute, well, your f*cked.
Big difference between taking a chance, and taking a risk.
When you distinguish between the two, then you have your advantage.

 

[Padfoot]

There are very very very very very very few genuine advantages in your average game of grassroots football.......the vast majority are manufactured because referees, stupidly, believe that they are doing the players a favour by playing it.

How often do you see a sunday morning troglodyte run 40 yds and chip the keeper....compared to how often you see a ball lumped into a crowded PA towards their 6ft plus unit who is all elbows and scores loads from set pieces?

Poor advantages cost promotion seeking referees many marks over a season due to the threat it brings to their match control....even if you get away with a couple....the risk is still there. It's a stupid risk to take and utterly avoidable.

You will never learn to recognise a genuine advantage while you still try to justify the multitude of dubious non-advantages that are given.

The first step in this process is to recognise the ability of the players you are officiating. It's a very basic thing to learn and you should be doing it at every game......the reality is that you probably do it without even realising it.......you just don't apply that knowledge to potential advantage situations.

But what do i know? I've only been watching referees get this wrong for more years than I care to remember.......

 

[Ciley Myrus]

^^^^ The derogatory manner in which you are describing the players of the sport you officiate in makes me question whether you belong on the same field as them ^^^^

maybe a bit more respect for the players might enhance your overall appreciation for the distinction and honour which I consider the position of football referee to be.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

The first time @Padfoot voiced his opinion on advantage i was like many of you, what the hell are you talking about? However as time has gone on and i have become more experienced i actually agree with him on this. I found myself giving advantages that simply weren't there. I have also seen countless referee's giving a hollywood advantage, not because it helps his match control or either of the teams but because it makes them look good. Similar to a quick card without taking a name, well Anthony Taylor does it so i do it.

I have found in the last season i am giving maybe 1 per match and sometimes none, in the past i would have been trying to find at least one as i thought i should give them, it is after all part of the marking criteria. However as i became more confident and experienced i could safely say to players, managers and observers a like, No i did not give an advantage today because of x,y and z and yes it does mainly come down to the ability of the players over many other factors. However i would'nt quite word it the way padders does and i am pretty sure that he wouldn't either. He has a reputation to uphold on here of being a right....................Padfoot!

 

[one]

for me the notion of "don't apply advantage because you are not good at it and there are few in grassroots anyway" is the same as "don't blow for fouls in U12 and below if you are a new referee because your fouls recognition is not good and there aren't too many fouls in U12s anyway".

No prizes for guessing I think they are both wrong.

 

[Cheshire Ref]

for me the notion of "don't apply advantage because you are not good at it and there are few in grassroots anyway" is the same as "don't blow for fouls in U12 and below if you are a new referee because your fouls recognition is not good and there aren't too many fouls in U12s anyway".

No prizes for guessing I think they are both wrong.

Nope those two things are completely different in every way.

 

[richard ramjane]

Nope those two things are completely different in every way.

agreed, two different things. @Padfoot is saying dont play advantage at lower levels as the PLAYERS arent very good at actually taking that advantage and converting it into a goal.

 

[Padfoot]

^^^^ The derogatory manner in which you are describing the players of the sport you officiate in makes me question whether you belong on the same field as them ^^^^

maybe a bit more respect for the players might enhance your overall appreciation for the distinction and honour which I consider the position of football referee to be.

The attitude, understanding and behaviour of the players have often led me to question whether I belong on the same field as them.......respect is earned not given......very few players have earned my respect over the years. And, funnily enough, the number of referees earning my respect seems to dwindle every season as well!

The first time @Padfoot voiced his opinion on advantage i was like many of you, what the hell are you talking about? However as time has gone on and i have become more experienced i actually agree with him on this. I found myself giving advantages that simply weren't there. I have also seen countless referee's giving a hollywood advantage, not because it helps his match control or either of the teams but because it makes them look good. Similar to a quick card without taking a name, well Anthony Taylor does it so i do it.

I have found in the last season i am giving maybe 1 per match and sometimes none, in the past i would have been trying to find at least one as i thought i should give them, it is after all part of the marking criteria. However as i became more confident and experienced i could safely say to players, managers and observers a like, No i did not give an advantage today because of x,y and z and yes it does mainly come down to the ability of the players over many other factors. However i would'nt quite word it the way padders does and i am pretty sure that he wouldn't either. He has a reputation to uphold on here of being a right....................Padfoot!

Who would've thought it? Mature referee with many years of experience actually knows what he's talking about......stop it. I'm welling up at the very thought of it......
Seriously though, glad that my perspective on things has helped out. Funnily enough, I learnt it from an older, more experienced colleague, who was an ex FL referee way back when......

for me the notion of "don't apply advantage because you are not good at it and there are few in grassroots anyway" is the same as "don't blow for fouls in U12 and below if you are a new referee because your fouls recognition is not good and there aren't too many fouls in U12s anyway".

No prizes for guessing I think they are both wrong.

They are also totally different......one looks at the ability of the player.....your u12 example looks at the ability of the referee....something which is not under discussion here.

agreed, two different things. @Padfoot is saying dont play advantage at lower levels as the PLAYERS arent very good at actually taking that advantage and converting it into a goal.

Pretty accurate.....although there are always going to be exceptions....you will occasionally find a very talented player on a Sunday morning who is slumming it with his mates.....but you'll spot them a mile away and whilst you could adjust your decision making when it comes to advantage for that one specific player, the need for a consistent approach is also important.

 

[JH]

There are very very very very very very few genuine advantages in your average game of grassroots football.......the vast majority are manufactured because referees, stupidly, believe that they are doing the players a favour by playing it.

How often do you see a sunday morning troglodyte run 40 yds and chip the keeper....compared to how often you see a ball lumped into a crowded PA towards their 6ft plus unit who is all elbows and scores loads from set pieces?

Poor advantages cost promotion seeking referees many marks over a season due to the threat it brings to their match control....even if you get away with a couple....the risk is still there. It's a stupid risk to take and utterly avoidable.

You will never learn to recognise a genuine advantage while you still try to justify the multitude of dubious non-advantages that are given.

The first step in this process is to recognise the ability of the players you are officiating. It's a very basic thing to learn and you should be doing it at every game......the reality is that you probably do it without even realising it.......you just don't apply that knowledge to potential advantage situations.

But what do i know? I've only been watching referees get this wrong for more years than I care to remember.......

I started reffing last season and in my 4th/5th game I managed to play 3 advantages that directly led to 3 goals for one side, at Sunday league U18 level, I don't understand this 'the players aren't good enough' rubbish. They weren't obvious opportunities, around the half way-line. With your theory, the team would've been deprived of 3 goals because you would've broken up the game for no reason. Advantage is useful and shouldn't be avoided out of fear of getting it wrong. Players would agree.

 

[Padfoot]

I started reffing last season and in my 4th/5th game I managed to play 3 advantages that directly led to 3 goals for one side, at Sunday league U18 level, I don't understand this 'the players aren't good enough' rubbish. They weren't obvious opportunities, around the half way-line. With your theory, the team would've been deprived of 3 goals because you would've broken up the game for no reason. Advantage is useful and shouldn't be avoided out of fear of getting it wrong. Players would agree.

Wow! You've been reffing a whole season.....I'll bow to your vast experience and knowledge then!

Sorry to burst your little self congratutory bubble......you got lucky.

 

[GraemeS]

Wow! You've been reffing a whole season.....I'll bow to your vast experience and knowledge then!

Sorry to burst your little self congratutory bubble......you got lucky.

Correction - he gave himself the opportunity to get lucky.

 

[Padfoot]

Correction - he gave himself the opportunity to get lucky.

He also took risks that were unnecessary and could've gone in a very different direction.

In reality, an "advantage" on the halfway line rarely leads directly to a goal.....they normally keep the game going (because the majority in grassroots are only possession based decisions) which may, or may not, allow a scoring opportunity to develop.

Players know very little other than what MOTD tells them when it comes to the nuances of refereeing.....any referee who thinks different is deluding themselves. Players will always tell you that they want the advantage....right up to the point when they fluff their attempted 10 yd pass to a team mate....then they want to know where the advantage was and why you're not pulling it back.
You are in a virtually no win scenario with advantage and grassroots players....if you give it and they mess it up, its your fault....if you don't give it, it's your fault........so, take the path that protects your match control, don't take unnecessary risks for little or no benefit.

 

[richard ramjane]

its a generalisation... i think someone has pointed out , that you can use judgement to ascertain whos on the ball at a given moment and factor that as an element of your call ...
i think players themselves will appreciate that , as i'm sure the weaker players in a squad are already identified by their team mates.

 

[Padfoot]

its a generalisation... i think someone has pointed out , that you can use judgement to ascertain whos on the ball at a given moment and factor that as an element of your call ...
i think players themselves will appreciate that , as i'm sure the weaker players in a squad are already identified by their team mates.

It's an observation borne out of many years of officiating and observing....very different to a generalisatiion.

 

[richard ramjane]

cannot deny your vast experience, but its still valid to class it as a generalisation.... in fact its quite a good example of one

 

[Padfoot]

cannot deny your vast experience, but its still valid to class it as a generalisation.... in fact its quite a good example of one

One with a solid basis in fact, and is proven correct week in week out throughout the season.

"You have to play advantage"....."player appreciate advantage"......"players understand advantage"......all generalisations without any basis in fact that will mislead officials into playing dubious advantages that represent more risk to their match control than benefit to the players.

 

[richard ramjane]

ok ok , so , say you were on an observation , and a ref identified a situation whereby he played an advantage for a player who was that one in a million... the one whos clearly more gifted than the other 21 players out there and has been runnnig rings around the oppo all afternoon, would you mark that referee down or would you ask him why he'd done so and talk it through with him (or her) ? Would you consider it a good call? would you consider it a good call if it resulted in a goal ? If you entertain discussion on it with that ref and he said to you, listen, i dont normally offer advantage at this level but my assessment of the situation was XYZ....
Or would you argue that on the offchance that if another player was in an identical situation during the match then giving the FK makes you look inconsistent and therefore potentially damages match control ?

 

[GraemeS]

He also took risks that were unnecessary and could've gone in a very different direction.

In reality, an "advantage" on the halfway line rarely leads directly to a goal.....they normally keep the game going (because the majority in grassroots are only possession based decisions) which may, or may not, allow a scoring opportunity to develop.

Players know very little other than what MOTD tells them when it comes to the nuances of refereeing.....any referee who thinks different is deluding themselves. Players will always tell you that they want the advantage....right up to the point when they fluff their attempted 10 yd pass to a team mate....then they want to know where the advantage was and why you're not pulling it back.
You are in a virtually no win scenario with advantage and grassroots players....if you give it and they mess it up, its your fault....if you don't give it, it's your fault........so, take the path that protects your match control, don't take unnecessary risks for little or no benefit.

So you pull it back! It's really not difficult, I don't know why you're making it sound like an incredibly difficult scenario - you attempted an advantage based on a player being likely to make a pass, he fails to make that pass so the FK is a better situation, so you come back. It's really really straightforward and the players always appreciate it.

 

[Padfoot]

So you pull it back! It's really not difficult, I don't know why you're making it sound like an incredibly difficult scenario - you attempted an advantage based on a player being likely to make a pass, he fails to make that pass so the FK is a better situation, so you come back. It's really really straightforward and the players always appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

.

Absolute rubbish. Players rarely appreciate it but they will accept it because they will be shouting at you for the FK before you've even blown to pull it back.

If it's an attempted advantage....it's not really an advantage.....it's "hmmmm might be, might not be, lets wait and see....." Then you are in the territory of having to make a decision about whether to pull it back or not if it turns out to be "not"......if you do pull it back, the opposition will moan because they will, obviously, want you to have decided that advantage has accrued and been wasted.....if you don't pull it back, the advantaged team will moan because "where was the advantage in that ref" or "we'll have the FK then ref".
Whichever way you go with it, no matter how correct you are, it will chip away at your match control.....play too many "advantages" like that, with the "wrong" type of team and things can get out of control quite quickly.

Yes, the more experience you get, the higher up the pyramid you officiate will all change how you use advantage, but for inexperienced colleagues it is a very bad idea to play unnecessary and dubious "advantages" just because "the players want it" or because they have been led to believe that referees have to play advantage.

 

[Padfoot]

ok ok , so , say you were on an observation , and a ref identified a situation whereby he played an advantage for a player who was that one in a million... the one whos clearly more gifted than the other 21 players out there and has been runnnig rings around the oppo all afternoon, would you mark that referee down or would you ask him why he'd done so and talk it through with him (or her) ? Would you consider it a good call? would you consider it a good call if it resulted in a goal ? If you entertain discussion on it with that ref and he said to you, listen, i dont normally offer advantage at this level but my assessment of the situation was XYZ....
Or would you argue that on the offchance that if another player was in an identical situation during the match then giving the FK makes you look inconsistent and therefore potentially damages match control ?

It would all depend on the specific scenario at the time.

As with any decision that I am looking for the referee to clarify, I would ask them to talk me through their thought process for that decision. What was said would shape my response.