No, sorry. I agree that there are a lot of factors to consider, but I don't think knowing the number of goals per minute that an extra player represents is part of that equation. Should the referee consider if that number is correct for the league he's in, or how far he should adjust it by based on each team's relative position in the league? You then have to cross-reference this with the number of minutes left in the game and almost instantly divide by a non-round number. Not having that I'm afraid, the referee shouldn't be expected to base his decision on that.The correct answer depends on how long is left in the game
Typically, a red card equates to one and half goals over 90 minutes or two thirds of a goal if there's half an hour left. This varies according to ability level. That's quite a lot to consider in a short space of time and complicated to explain to dimwit players!
I didn't consider that anyone would take my answer literallyNo, sorry. I agree that there are a lot of factors to consider, but I don't think knowing the number of goals per minute that an extra player represents is part of that equation. Should the referee consider if that number is correct for the league he's in, or how far he should adjust it by based on each team's relative position in the league? You then have to cross-reference this with the number of minutes left in the game and almost instantly divide by a non-round number. Not having that I'm afraid, the referee shouldn't be expected to base his decision on that.
The laws and precedent are pretty clear - the agreed on "best" thing to happen for the attacking team here is a goal, with the penalty/red card being considered less good. By blowing too quickly, the referee can be expected to be slightly marked down regardless of the time left in the match.
Our association recently took a stand on this and stated that the delayed whistle (silent advantage) is appropriate if there's an obvious goal scoring opportunity (ie, empty net, etc). If the player can't score on that, caution to the offender and go from there.Personally speaking I think I would play advantage there as only one of two things was happening, it was going in or it wasn't. If it didn't quite make it you could easily sell pulling it back for the penalty and red card. You could even shout out "if it doesn't cross the line we are coming back for the penalty".
I was working on the basis that the ball was defo going in the goal in the OPIs there a risk or doubt about red card and pen? No
is there (an element) of risk and doubt about the ball going over the line? YES! even the defender rushing back is nearly there
I would like to think top level refs would do the safe thing here.
You also run the huge risk of, giving them the two proverbial bites of the cherry if that ball does not go in
more so, ball does not go in....can you really sell DOGSO, as, clearly, no obvious goal scoring opportunity was denied.....
Yes i can sell it and yes it was denied. The reason a goal was not scored is because the attacker was illegally prevented to follow through and tap the ball in.ball does not go in....can you really sell DOGSO, as, clearly, no obvious goal scoring opportunity was denied.....
Punters need to know these things. It's not a guess!although not sure about his wet finger in the air estimation of how many goals a player is worth
Yes, most footballers and managers would agree with this. The ref awarding a penalty in the OP was the wrong decision from football's perspectivea Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush
Is playing advantage for a ball rolling towards a goal really two bites of the cherry?
And if you can’t sell that as DOGSO when giving the pen, then I’m not sure I understand DOGSO
Disagree completely, but only because I think you've misinterpreted the scenario in the original video. If no foul occurs, that ball is going over the line one way or the other - either using it's own momentum, or it's being tapped in by the striker. The "denial" occurs when the striker is pulled down, but the "obvious goalscoring opportunity" exists as soon as the striker gets in front of the GK - because he's going to be the first to get to the ball. For me, this is the textbook example ofI don't think I got my point across. I don't know how to without, painting another scenario along the same lines...
Crossed wires here I think..
if giving the pk there and then, then,dogso. Bye bye gk
If delaying whistle to watch ball roll into net and it does not, then, you can bring it back for a pk but, (and here is the difficult part), you cannot dismiss for dogso.
The clear and obvious gs opportunity has not been denied, granted the ball did not roll over the line, but, that clear and obv opportunity still existed. As we know, its a clear opportunity to score a goal, not the actual scoring of the goal itself we are to judge.
I probably have not worded that properly, but to go back, award pk, and send off gk (if the ball does not roll in), is two goes at it. And ideally, it should be either or.
Which is why am sure this ref did the safe thing.
Nobody can argue its, not a foul, not a pk, and not a red card
At the exact time of contact, I dont see 100% the ball will go in.
Looking at it as we do on the clip, we are not in the refs shoes, we have no pressure, no game plan, no knowledge of the teams, no crowd noise, no AR shouting 'penalty" on the comms, so of course our thinking will be different
If we are to consider the time as a factor, how many of us, esp I find on the line, want to get a big first offside right, to set us up for the rest of the game?
How keen are we as referee not to mess up our first big call?
Very, its a long long way back if we get the first one wrong,or, it does not work out the way we hoped it would
Three mins in, this could be his first big call. No chances, safe refereeing, the referee badge allows you to referee games, not be a superhero, pk, red card,
I might be inclined to consider time as a factor (and score) if team are 5-0 up with five to go and this is the winning team going forward.
I still remember and I stand by a training class years ago, where the instruction was, unless the attacker only has to fall over the ball to score, give the pk.
As ever, you might have been taught otherwise, and thats fine too.
and as such, is one of the rare situations when a penalty area advantage is actually appropriate.unless the attacker only has to fall over the ball to score